T33 over Waterloo

[GreyGhost]

Once again, if we're to talk about axing it due to cost vs return, then it isn't crazy talk to make comparisons, it's entirely relevant. We just devoted almost a billion dollars to something that provides no benefit at all. We spent $595m last year to buy media support for a political campaign.

Also, we can say the maintenance is top notch all we want, and I'm sure they try their best to keep the planes in shape, however the many mechanical failures are proving it isn't good enough when an air frame reaches this age.

Im not saying that comparisons shouldnt be made to existing programs. I am saying that each program should also be evaluated independently on its merits and whether it is worth the investment. If your bar for what programs should be funded is "well we spent a billion dollars to attain a UN seat with zero return" then there is no point discussing any future funding. That program divided by zero and no future program can be any more wasteful so therefore all should be funded. The logic works for JT, it doesnt work for the future.

 

[crankcall]

Interesting evaluation of the snowbird crash last night from a friend of mine. He considers the pilot got it very wrong, pulled the plane up to gain hieght but in effect stalled it, which then turned it into a lawn dart. Bailed over a residential nieghborhood and let the plane drop into a subdivision. Amazing nobody on the ground was pancaked. Zero effort to look for a roadway, runway, field , just no power/I'm out. His consideration was the pilot was pretty irresponsible.

Since they dont make a lot of Tudor jets anymore, maybe they will just run out of planes. They will stop getting invites to airshows if thier safety records dont improve.

 

[GreyGhost]

Interesting evaluation of the snowbird crash last night from a friend of mine. He considers the pilot got it very wrong, pulled the plane up to gain hieght but in effect stalled it, which then turned it into a lawn dart. Bailed over a residential nieghborhood and let the plane drop into a subdivision. Amazing nobody on the ground was pancaked. Zero effort to look for a roadway, runway, field , just no power/I'm out. His consideration was the pilot was pretty irresponsible.

Since they dont make a lot of Tudor jets anymore, maybe they will just run out of planes. They will stop getting invites to airshows if thier safety records dont improve.

That was mostly my thought too. Turning speed into height was a good idea but it went too far. Not sure if he was trying to get back (terrible idea) or if he didnt pay attention to airspeed while trying to troubleshoot (terrible idea). Once he became a law dart, there was a delay before the ejection happened. Pretty much everything after the initial pull up didnt go well.

 

[Wingboy]

I heard an interview the day it happened with a first on the scene neighbour who happened too be a nurse. She said the female IN the aircraft had massive injuries that couldn't be dealt with.
I have read several reports that say there were 2 ejections. I have watched the videos a lot of times and only see the canopy blow off, and one ejection.wtf?

 

[nobbie48]

Once again, if we're to talk about axing it due to cost vs return, then it isn't crazy talk to make comparisons, it's entirely relevant. We just devoted almost a billion dollars to something that provides no benefit at all. We spent $595m last year to buy media support for a political campaign.

Also, we can say the maintenance is top notch all we want, and I'm sure they try their best to keep the planes in shape, however the many mechanical failures are proving it isn't good enough when an air frame reaches this age.

Tutor single engine and it sounded like the engine failed. I don't know how one tests internal engine components that revolve at very high RPM's.

It's hard to put a value on something with no intrinsic value. Who needs art, ballet, opera, flower gardens or air shows when the money could be used to convert shipping containers into cheap dreary houses for the poor dreary masses?

We cannot live by bread alone (Biblical) but does this justify going after money pit events just to prove we can do it?

What percentage of our economy is entertainment based? That includes restaurants.

Covid 19 may be teaching us we should have been developing our industries but life would be dull.

 

[GreyGhost]

Tutor single engine and it sounded like the engine failed. I don't know how one tests internal engine components that revolve at very high RPM's.

It's hard to put a value on something with no intrinsic value. Who needs art, ballet, opera, flower gardens or air shows when the money could be used to convert shipping containers into cheap dreary houses for the poor dreary masses?

We cannot live by bread alone (Biblical) but does this justify going after money pit events just to prove we can do it?

What percentage of our economy is entertainment based? That includes restaurants.

Covid 19 may be teaching us we should have been developing our industries but life would be dull.

I don't want a world devoid of entertainment. I am ok with a world where entertainment is not blindly funded with public money regardless of the cost. That includes stupid purchases by art galleries and the snowbirds. If I want to see cool planes, there are people like waterloo warbirds and hamilton heritage that allow that to happen with self-sustaining funding. For art galleries, lots of rich people are happy to lend valuable art if their name goes on an adjacent plaque.

 

[nobbie48]

I don't want a world devoid of entertainment. I am ok with a world where entertainment is not blindly funded with public money regardless of the cost. That includes stupid purchases by art galleries and the snowbirds. If I want to see cool planes, there are people like waterloo warbirds and hamilton heritage that allow that to happen with self-sustaining funding. For art galleries, lots of rich people are happy to lend valuable art if their name goes on an adjacent plaque.

Does this mean you don't want the Olympics?

Seriously, I think art and art appreciation should be taught in school. Afterwards the art creator and the art appreciator can do their business deals and largely leave the public purse out of it. If Karen can't get anyone to buy her etchings she can sell them to her mommy.

Similarly, people need to be taught that foods other than cheeseburgers can taste good while being inexpensive and nourishing. School cafeterias take note.

 

[GreyGhost]

Does this mean you don't want the Olympics?

In it's current form governed by corruption and existing solely to enrich the few, I am 100% anti-olympics. I haven't watched them since I was a kid and don't plan on starting. As far as the intended spirit of the Olympic games and people striving to be the best they can, I am 100% for that. I doubt you can ever get back to a system where the athletes are the focus instead of the money.

 

[backmarkerducati]

The Snowbird pilots are there for a three year run with roughly 1/3 replaced every year. It is more than just entertainment. For the RCAF it is a retention tool for those expensive to train fighter pilots. It is also a training tool for said pilots. It is also a recruitment tool for the forces in general. Finally things like this help PR, presenting an image other than guys in camo with guns. Ending the squadron will have greater impacts than just some cash outlay.

The planes were last scheduled to be replaced in 2010, of course that government kicked it down the road, like previous and the current one. This is not a JT thing other than he is there right now.

On top of the RCAF standards they perform in Canada and the US they have to meet Transport Canada and FAA regulations regarding the aircraft and the manoeuvres. They are actually scheduled for some avionics refits to meet these standards. The aircraft have very strict maintenance schedules, engine rebuilds etc. to meet these mentioned standards. Also, lets not forget that we just had a new helicopter crash...new is usually better but not 100%. They have 24 (give or take one...) Tudors "in stock".

We lease BAe CT155 Hawks for fighter pilot training (also stationed at Moose Jaw) it makes sense to just get more of these for this purpose. One hold up is cargo space. The Snowbirds carry around their gear and team in the Tutors, they will need another support aircraft to carry it all if they use Hawks.

 

[crankcall]

I heard an interview the day it happened with a first on the scene neighbour who happened too be a nurse. She said the female IN the aircraft had massive injuries that couldn't be dealt with.
I have read several reports that say there were 2 ejections. I have watched the videos a lot of times and only see the canopy blow off, and one ejection.wtf?

are you drinking, its on last page, the ejector blows both seats, one lever. You see two smoke trails, a canopy, then both seats go together. If they go separete the blast jet would bbq the other seat.

 

[GreyGhost]

are you drinking, its on last page, the ejector blows both seats, one lever. You see two smoke trails, a canopy, then both seats go together. If they go separete the blast jet would bbq the other seat.

That's what's supposed to happen, not always what does happen. I wasn't sure either way from the video.

 

[Wingboy]

are you drinking, its on last page, the ejector blows both seats, one lever. You see two smoke trails, a canopy, then both seats go together. If they go separete the blast jet would bbq the other seat.

Then how did she end up in the aircraft as the nurse said? I only see a plume of smoke from the canopy charge and then it looks to me like a single seat. Guess I'm wrong.

 

[hdsomeday]

That was mostly my thought too. Turning speed into height was a good idea but it went too far. Not sure if he was trying to get back (terrible idea) or if he didnt pay attention to airspeed while trying to troubleshoot (terrible idea). Once he became a law dart, there was a delay before the ejection happened. Pretty much everything after the initial pull up didnt go well.

Ever have a scared passenger screaming in your ear? She wasnt a pilot. I'm guessing she didnt make the situation any better for the pilot.

Not that I blame her for a second. I would have the same reaction.

"Pop quiz, hotshot. You have no engine. There is someone screaming behind you. It will take you 5 seconds to figure it out. You have 3. What do you do? What do you do?"

 

[crankcall]

Then how did she end up in the aircraft as the nurse said? I only see a plume of smoke from the canopy charge and then it looks to me like a single seat. Guess I'm wrong.

My understanding was she ended up in a backyard? Pilot landed on a house roof which given the trampolinishness of most house roofs probably helped save him.

Some day a responsible news agency will show up and report things as they actually happened, not as seen by a third cousin , told to a guy in line at Taco Bell .

EDIT:: if it turns out the gal was still in the aircraft and the ejector didnt fire her chair, holy smoke. That wont help the program.

 

[crankcall]

Pop quiz, hotshot. You have no engine. There is someone screaming behind you. It will take you 5 seconds to figure it out. You have 3. What do you do? What do you do?"

Pretty sure the Tudors sit side by side , so no screaming behind you.

But possibly being left in the plane when the guy that had control, till he lost control , fucks off and leaves you headed back to earth? well that would just suck

 

[backmarkerducati]

are you drinking, its on last page, the ejector blows both seats, one lever. You see two smoke trails, a canopy, then both seats go together. If they go separete the blast jet would bbq the other seat.

I am not sure he is the one drinking....

It is possible the seat failed, it is also possible they did not remove (forgot) the seat's ground safety pin pre-flight. Both are simple explanations a "sober" person would consider....

 

[GreyGhost]

Analysis by former snowbird commander. Pretty good description of ejection. Canopy and both seats ejected. Each person in plane needs to pull their own ejection release. Potential bird strike visible on video to precipitate crash.

And because he is almost always the voice of reason, Juan Browne. Pop sounds like flameout.

 

[GreyGhost]

Report is out. As expected bird strike>compressor stall>pilot tried to turn back to airport>stalled>crash. Interestingly they included proximity to other aircraft as adding complication to the situation. Maybe they shouldn't take off in formation on transit flights? It's like the golden helmets riding side by side which looks cool but is so dumb in an uncontrolled environment.

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