Struggling financially and getting frustrated? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Struggling financially and getting frustrated?

Clutt-225

Well-known member
Ok this could get long winded.
A guy I know is struggling financially in his mind. Can’t seem to let go of the home ownership expectations.
Has saved very little if anything.
Drives new truck making payment
Has new Sea-doo making payment
Buys every tool he could ever need for any trade. I mean everything.
But complains he’s broke and needs to do something different.
But he has in my opinion missed the boat when it comes to owning a home.
How could anyone get into the housing market on a single income of around $60,000yr is it possible?
Is income the problem here?
Working in Toronto could expect $10hr more money but can’t buy there.
Moving away from Durham region can reduce housing costs but also income potential
Commuting comes with its own expenses

I bought a fixer upper in 1999 that I almost tripled my money on In 9 years.
I was 21 years old and bought with my now wife. $57,000 😂
Then into my current home that I paid $280,000. Probably over $700,000 now If we were to sell.
So on the out side to him I live in a $700,000 house and I’m telling him he can’t do it on almost the same income with no kids or wife to support.
If it weren’t for that early start I don’t think I’d be in any different spot. I’ve never made great money just got lucky I guess.
 

Lightcycle

Motorcycle Nomad
Site Supporter
My advice is to first get a good financial picture of their situation. Figure out exactly what is coming in and what is going out.

1) Document all discretionary and non-discretionary monthly expenses.

2) Compare it to net income.

3) Plan a budget to bring expenses down to a level where they have enough left over to save for a down-payment and regular mortgage payments and still have leeway to pay for emergency expenses (like a six-month buffer in case of unemployment, medical expenses, major unexpected car repairs, etc)

4) Find a small place within this budget and take on a roommate or tenants to help pay the mortgage and build equity.

5) Stick to the plan and don't self-sabotage by taking on unnecessary additional expenses, like a new truck or motorcycle on credit.
 

Clutt-225

Well-known member
My advice is to first get a good financial picture of their situation. Figure out exactly what is coming in and what is going out.

1) Document all discretionary and non-discretionary monthly expenses.

2) Compare it to net income.

3) Plan a budget to bring expenses down to a level where they have enough left over to save for a down-payment and regular mortgage payments and still have leeway to pay for emergency expenses (like a six-month buffer in case of unemployment, medical expenses, major unexpected car repairs, etc)

4) Find a small place within this budget and take on a roommate or tenants to help pay the mortgage and build equity.

5) Stick to the plan and don't self-sabotage by taking on unnecessary additional expenses, like a new truck or motorcycle on credit.
Thats great but is it actually possible?
when I did a quick search I came up with “if you make 100k / yr (which he’s 40 short) you should be able to purchase and carry a $250 to 300k home (Good luck)
I have found this to be mostly accurate as when I had a job and a $300k house I was pretty much house poor. No car payment no toy payment little spending money.
So if you make $60K and you can’t find a house for $175k then should you not just accept the fact that you missed the boat? Find material happiness in other items.
Houses aren’t getting cheaper, He is already at the top of his field as far as income.
He won’t work longer hours. He’s just so far away it seems impossible.
I guess #s 4 & 5 are key.
My self I think I would let go of the house dream and enjoy the other items, as has always been his choice. Why give up everything he enjoys to get into a mortgage he can barely afford to buy a mediocre house he won’t be happy with at 40years old.
 

Lightcycle

Motorcycle Nomad
Site Supporter
If home ownership and building equity is the end-goal, then you need to move the goalposts so it's achievable.

A 4-bedroom single family house in the 416 with a 2-car garage and a large front and backyard on $60K a year is probably not realistic.

But why does it have to be a house in the city?

What about an apartment out of the city?

Equity is equity, and RE can be traded up to the next tier/location if it appreciates enough.
 

Clutt-225

Well-known member
Even starter homes in Durham region are almost $450,000.
Pretty rare to find anything for under $400K
Based on what I’ve found he needs something under the $200k range and would still be house poor.
 

Trials

Well-known member
Lottery tickets and a whole lot of luck (y) but you still have to know how to manage your money, I worked with a guy that was terrible with money,
he won a million on a scratch ticket, five years later he was broke as all **** again.
... and he doesn't even have any nice things now, it was just spent money.
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
need to have realistic goals and be prepared to sacrifice for what you want. Can't make 60k and have new toys and a 'new' home.

I would say he is not struggling, he's made other things a priority
 

nakkers

Well-known member
Site Supporter
See it all the time. Folks see other folks having things and they think they should have those same things or more.

Vehicle payments are expected I suppose. But, does it need to be a truck? Not the best fuel economy. Insurance costs isn’t the greatest.

Seadoo/jet ski? My life gets by without them. Maintenance, repairs, etc. There are better ways to spend your time and money and have better “value”. To each their own.

Housing costs. Townhouse or rent. Why does it have to be a house?

Is the work that specialized the need to live and work in the same area?

Why is it important to live there?

I’ve lived in London, Brampton and St Catharines. Toronto wages were not proportional to geography in my opinion. Have friends living all over the province. Peterborough, Chesterville, London, Toronto, Fort Erie, etc.

I’m living where I have for children in school. But, if I wasn’t obligated in such a way, I’d live anywhere.

I also know friends that earn really good money, have really nice things and they can’t relax event when they are on vacation. The phone rings, they pick it up because of the work they do. I can put my phone down without a care in the world.

Have another friend in concrete, works his butt off sun up to sun down and chills in the winter. Lives in Fort Erie. Does pretty well for himself.

Another in Sarnia, making $60k seasonal work spraying pesticide at hydro stations across SW ONT.

You can change jobs, change location, change spending or any combo.

I’ve found folks change when it’s force upon them. Employer restructures, etc. Otherwise, they just complain about how difficult it is.


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Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
See it all the time. Folks see other folks having things and they think they should have those same things or more.

Vehicle payments are expected I suppose. But, does it need to be a truck? Not the best fuel economy. Insurance costs isn’t the greatest.

Seadoo/jet ski? My life gets by without them. Maintenance, repairs, etc. There are better ways to spend your time and money and have better “value”. To each their own.

Housing costs. Townhouse or rent. Why does it have to be a house?

Is the work that specialized the need to live and work in the same area?

Why is it important to live there?

I’ve lived in London, Brampton and St Catharines. Toronto wages were not proportional to geography in my opinion. Have friends living all over the province. Peterborough, Chesterville, London, Toronto, Fort Erie, etc.

I’m living where I have for children in school. But, if I wasn’t obligated in such a way, I’d live anywhere.

I also know friends that earn really good money, have really nice things and they can’t relax event when they are on vacation. The phone rings, they pick it up because of the work they do. I can put my phone down without a care in the world.

Have another friend in concrete, works his butt off sun up to sun down and chills in the winter. Lives in Fort Erie. Does pretty well for himself.

Another in Sarnia, making $60k seasonal work spraying pesticide at hydro stations across SW ONT.

You can change jobs, change location, change spending or any combo.

I’ve found folks change when it’s force upon them. Employer restructures, etc. Otherwise, they just complain about how difficult it is.


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Respect.

I value my ability to unplug on vacation above almost anything.
 

crankcall

Well-known member
Site Supporter
it would be extremely difficult to buy a home on 60K , unless you want to live in rural route bumfuk . An then it would be tight. But get a vehicle he can afford, and ditch the seadoo payments, and stop buying every tool he sees.

Just a hunch, when hes complaining is he holding a beer? just a pattern i see
 

Joe Bass

*probably eating right now*
Site Supporter
@Clutt-225 I say all the time that if I had to buy now, I'd never be able to afford my house.

Like others have said, home ownership is still possible, but you need to just find the right location and/ or realistic expectations.

And he can't get overtime or won't work overtime?
Kid at my work wants to buy a place.
Says it's too expensive.
I ask how come instead of hoing home at 230pm to go play video games, why doesn't he stick around with me for a couple of hours of OT.
His answer? "I shouldn't have to work overtime to afford a house". Smfh

Like the post about the scratch ticket.... that could be me. I'm terrible with money. I'd eat out everyday if I didn't have my wife to slap some sense into me.

But, unlike that kid at my work, I don't dress exclusively in Under Armour and Yeezy's.

Costco tshirts and shorts, and my shoes are off the clearance rack, or hand me downs from my son that keeps growing out of them.
All that money they spend on video games and clothes could turn into a down payment...but "I shouldn't have to..."


I've posted this here before, one of my favourite sayings:

You can have anything you want, you just can't have everything you want.



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Wingboy

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
The guy needs to get out of Toronto.Real estate is a LOT cheaper elsewhere.
 

crankcall

Well-known member
Site Supporter
@joebass , I'd counter with you can have everything you want, if your making the cash to support it, and those guys leaving at 2;30 to head home? never gonna get it.
Guy that leaves at 2;30 to work at a pizza del job? not getting there either but better.
Guy that leaves a 2;30 , learns how the pizza business works and wants to own the store? better yet.

Girl work with my wife , RN making 94,000. she is forced to sell her house, hubbby has been out for 14 wks, and CERB isn't enough to keep the ball rolling, lived large until they didnt.

Friends daughter , now 32 and still a couch surfer cant figure out why no one will hire her for a upper tier management job when she has never held a lower tier job for 6 months and shuffles from pot garage to screen porch
 

Joe Bass

*probably eating right now*
Site Supporter
@crankcall sure, but let's be real here: the % of people that make "if you have to ask you can't afford it" money is generally small.
And people think they deserve more.

Years ago my mom worked at a bank as a loans officer/ financial planner. (FYI, she was more concerned with helping clients than just selling products)
A guy went to my mom for a loan. He needed to pay some bills....says to my mom "I don't know how I have bills, I make $200k a year"
My mom answers "well according to your bills, you spent $250k".

I feel that's the mindset people have when they think they can have everything.

Going back to my earlier point, I always wondered how much $, to me, would be "eff you" money.

One million?
Ten million?
50 million?
One billion?

At what net worth can you really not have to ask the price of something?

I would consider myself mega rich at a net worth $50 million.
But watching those SoCal real estate shows, you could spend that on a Malibu beach home.

Here's a crazy thought that I often have:
If I won $10 million in the lotto
How much would I spend on a new house (if I wanted one).
I keep thinking that it wouldn't be more than $2 million.
Then it scares me to think that someone that makes combined income of $120k is looking to spend $1 million on a home.

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nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Tools are things one needs to make or save money. A battery powered hammer sharpener is a tool box ornament.

Where does the friend live now and what trade? Where does he store his jetski? Is there rent on that? Insurance?

Is the $60K gross? If so his take home is likely around $4K a month. Dump the monthly payment stuff and share an apartment for $700 a month, Sally Ann pots and dishes and $300 for food and he can save close to $3K a month. His present social status will suck but maybe he'll get away from the shopaholic crowd that me may be hanging with now.

In two years he will have $50-60K for a down payment and he rents out a room to speed the mortgage pay off. Some OT or moonlighting and in 10 years all will be good. Think like one of the immigrants that tend to get despised.

Just a long shot, not knowing the friend but he may be suffering from Madisonitis. It's a condition originating from the ad agencies on Madison Ave. Symptoms include empty pockets, need for a daily purchase to prove one's worth and dependency on Starbucks coffee. Unchecked, it results in financial death.
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
@crankcall sure, but let's be real here: the % of people that make "if you have to ask you can't afford it" money is generally small.
And people think they deserve more.

Years ago my mom worked at a bank as a loans officer/ financial planner. (FYI, she was more concerned with helping clients than just selling products)
A guy went to my mom for a loan. He needed to pay some bills....says to my mom "I don't know how I have bills, I make $200k a year"
My mom answers "well according to your bills, you spent $250k".

I feel that's the mindset people have when they think they can have everything.

Going back to my earlier point, I always wondered how much $, to me, would be "eff you" money.

One million?
Ten million?
50 million?
One billion?

At what net worth can you really not have to ask the price of something?

I would consider myself mega rich at a net worth $50 million.
But watching those SoCal real estate shows, you could spend that on a Malibu beach home.

Here's a crazy thought that I often have:
If I won $10 million in the lotto
How much would I spend on a new house (if I wanted one).
I keep thinking that it wouldn't be more than $2 million.
Then it scares me to think that someone that makes combined income of $120k is looking to spend $1 million on a home.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

I've seen a couple of Ontario rural estates in the 2-5 million range that would make nice getaways. I would want a caretaker in a cottage on site for security and maintenance. Add 200K a year or so for upkeep. A riding mower is only fun the first time. Ten million to buy and maintain for the rest of my life except I'm too cheap to spend.

Too much for me but I did work on a cottage in the Kawarthas that had full time maids, grounds keepers and maintenance. Even when the owners weren't there, fresh food was in the fridge in case they decided to drop in. The air conditioned wine cellar looked like a small LCBO. Chipping green for golf practice, a million dollars worth of floating stuff parked at the wet bar equipped dock and a half dozen ATV's to run the acreage trails. An out of sight massive metal workshop took care of storage issues.

I've done work in some pretty impressive homes and with size comes a parade of employees to mistrust. And you can't watch TV in your underwear drinking cheap beer.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
You don't get anywhere without a plan, he will need to make one. If he deals with a decent bank, he can arrange an appointment with a financial advisor. This is not a solution, they will not do his plan, but it's a place to start as he will get some advice on where he needs to be financially in order to get started with home ownership.

On a $60K income, home ownership is possible in Durham. You can get the odd fixer-upper (good use for his tools) in the $300-350 range. Townhouses and condos are also in that range however they can be tougher to finance as each $100 worth of condo fees reduces maximum mortgage by about $15k.

The first thing he needs is a down payment. Let's say he gets started with a small house worth $350.

Down Payment: $18k minimum, mortgage would be about $350K, PIT in the range of $1750/mo.

In order to qualify for that mortgage, he needs approx 40% or less of his gross income going to debt service. On $60K, here are the mortgage options If he were debt free (no credit card payments, no loans). Each $100 worth of loan payments reduces the amount he will qualify for by $15K (so a $600 truck payment reduces the amount he qualifies for by $90K).

  • He could buy a free hold house worth up to $285K.
  • If he rented a portion of his house for $800/mo, he could go to $315K
  • If he increased his income to $70K, he could go to $340K
  • If he increased his income to $70K, and rented a portion of his house for $800/mo he could go to $360K

Getting the down payment. The best strategy for a first time buyer is to start building an RSP. This can cut the saving time considerably if you have the discipline to reinvest the annual tax savings. Putting $150/week into an RSP banks $10K/year if you reinvest the tax savings.
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
You don't get anywhere without a plan, he will need to make one. If he deals with a decent bank, he can arrange an appointment with a financial advisor. This is not a solution, they will not do his plan, but it's a place to start as he will get some advice on where he needs to be financially in order to get started with home ownership.

On a $60K income, home ownership is possible in Durham. You can get the odd fixer-upper (good use for his tools) in the $300-350 range. Townhouses and condos are also in that range however they can be tougher to finance as each $100 worth of condo fees reduces maximum mortgage by about $15k.

The first thing he needs is a down payment. Let's say he gets started with a small house worth $350.

Down Payment: $18k minimum, mortgage would be about $350K, PIT in the range of $1750/mo.

In order to qualify for that mortgage, he needs approx 40% or less of his gross income going to debt service. On $60K, here are the mortgage options If he were debt free (no credit card payments, no loans). Each $100 worth of loan payments reduces the amount he will qualify for by $15K (so a $600 truck payment reduces the amount he qualifies for by $90K).

  • He could buy a free hold house worth up to $285K.
  • If he rented a portion of his house for $800/mo, he could go to $315K
  • If he increased his income to $70K, he could go to $340K
  • If he increased his income to $70K, and rented a portion of his house for $800/mo he could go to $360K

Getting the down payment. The best strategy for a first time buyer is to start building an RSP. This can cut the saving time considerably if you have the discipline to reinvest the annual tax savings. Putting $150/week into an RSP banks $10K/year if you reinvest the tax savings.
Toronto may be the epicenter of real estate but all of southern Ontario can be an equity builder if one thinks smart.

With fixer uppers detached has fewer strings attached than condos. Impressive decks and colour schemes do wonders for curb appeal at minimal cost.
 

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