Sound and muscle memory.
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Rev match sequence?
- Thread starter QVBD
- Start date
Downshifting threads are always the most entertaining. Some truly surprising and disappointing replies from thirty and forty year riders who really ought to know better.
Random notes:
Downshifting/rev matching is not exclusive to the track; it is an essential skill with which every street rider should be proficient, regardless of the type of bike. For those with a traditional H pattern stick shift in your car, the same principle applies.
The whole idea is not to slow the bike in a hurry; that's what brakes are for. Rather, it ensures the bike is always in the correct gear for any given speed.
When done correctly, it will not cause additional wear or strain on the drivetrain.
Once mastered, it will become one quick, fluid motion.
Engine braking (throttle closed, clutch out) is good; coasting (throttle closed, clutch in) is bad and should be avoided.
Reasons to downshift/rev match:
- it's necessary
- as mentioned above, it's correct and good form
- it sounds cool
- it's fun!
Reasons not to downshift/rev match:
- there is absolutely no reason not to downshift/rev match
OP, you're on the right track. Keep practicing. When you get it right, you'll instantly know and it will be a very satisfying moment.
Once you're confident, try adding some front brake.
As for you old boys, it's never too late for an old dog to learn a new trick.
Random notes:
Downshifting/rev matching is not exclusive to the track; it is an essential skill with which every street rider should be proficient, regardless of the type of bike. For those with a traditional H pattern stick shift in your car, the same principle applies.
The whole idea is not to slow the bike in a hurry; that's what brakes are for. Rather, it ensures the bike is always in the correct gear for any given speed.
When done correctly, it will not cause additional wear or strain on the drivetrain.
Once mastered, it will become one quick, fluid motion.
Engine braking (throttle closed, clutch out) is good; coasting (throttle closed, clutch in) is bad and should be avoided.
Reasons to downshift/rev match:
- it's necessary
- as mentioned above, it's correct and good form
- it sounds cool
- it's fun!
Reasons not to downshift/rev match:
- there is absolutely no reason not to downshift/rev match
OP, you're on the right track. Keep practicing. When you get it right, you'll instantly know and it will be a very satisfying moment.
Once you're confident, try adding some front brake. As for you old boys, it's never too late for an old dog to learn a new trick.
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Motorcycles don't have synchros.
Good to know. For some reason I thought they might but wasn't really sure.
Good advice. When i exit the HWY in 6th. Downshifting to 5th and 4th are very smooth...
Don’t get me wrong... i’m all in for advanced training. I did read though that people who took advanced courses crash more than the rest ( obviously percentage-wise). The reason is simple, they take more risks. I still have chicken strips on my bike. If i take courses, i’ll be trying much harder to get rid of them??
Agree on all fronts.
Not rev matching on downshifts means that you're effectively forcing the rear tire to do it for you when you let out the clutch and you get that "jerk" while the drivetrain drags the engine up to the matching RPM. The same RPM it would have been at already if you rev matched the downshift.
The issue with that is...traction. The first time you make an aggressive non-matched downshift in less than ideal traction conditions you can pay a very high price for that in the form of crashing.
A LOT of motorcycle wrecks are caused by loss of traction on the rear tire, directly caused by rider error. Ever heard of people dumping their bikes in a little bit of gravel on a corner? It's almost always rider error, and dumping the clutch out after dropping 2 or 3 gears without matching the engine to the road speed again is going to make the chances of the rear tire losing traction and slipping out multiply many times. A proper revmatched bike on the other hand will just continue on since you're only asking the tire to maintain cornering traction, not lateral AND cornering traction at the same time.
The same is applicable for ANY low traction situation - rain, gravel, painted lines, frosty roads in the shoulder seasons, wet leaves, grass clippings, etc etc etc.
Except for the highlighted BS, I agree with the rest.Downshifting threads are always the most entertaining. Some truly surprising and disappointing replies from thirty and forty year riders who really ought to know better.
Random notes:
Downshifting/rev matching is not exclusive to the track; it is an essential skill with which every street rider should be proficient, regardless of the type of bike. For those with a traditional H pattern stick shift in your car, the same principle applies.
The whole idea is not to slow the bike in a hurry; that's what brakes are for. Rather, it ensures the bike is always in the correct gear for any given speed.
When done correctly, it will not cause additional wear or strain on the drivetrain.
Once mastered, it will become one quick, fluid motion.
Engine braking (throttle closed, clutch out) is good; coasting (throttle closed, clutch in) is bad and should be avoided.
Reasons to downshift/rev match:
- it's necessary
- as mentioned above, it's correct and good form
- it sounds cool
- it's fun!
Reasons not to downshift/rev match:
- there is absolutely no reason not to downshift/rev match
OP, you're on the right track. Keep practicing. When you get it right, you'll instantly know and it will be a very satisfying moment.
As for you old boys, it's never too late for an old dog to learn a new trick.
You are still using the clutch to downshift. Which means you will wear the clutch vs not using it at all. Also, brake pads are cheaper and easier to replace.
The rest of the comment I agree with.
Trials
Well-known member
Two minutes and a sheet of sandpaper
do it before you take the course and you won't be riding on the slippery part.... might even reduce your chances of crashing during the course
I still have chicken strips on my bike. If i take courses, i’ll be trying much harder to get rid of them
Odd, mine are on the tires
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app
Clutch wear is caused by the friction the clutch pack needs to generate to match the rotational speed of the crankshaft/primary drive and transmission when they are being mated at different RPM’s. When you are fully disengaging the clutch there is enough engine oil flowing around/through the plates to prevent wear.
When you are proficient at rev matching the clutch is used to disengage the engine allowing it to spin up to match the speed of the next gear selection in the transmission. When done correctly your crank>primary drive>clutch basket will be rotating at the same speed as the transmission input shaft requiring minimal/zero friction to be generated by the clutch.
If you are using rev matching as a shifting technique and not a braking technique the wear to your bike is negligible.
Yes, in 100% perfect world they do.
Let's not kid ourselves even pro racers can't make that perfect matching revs.
matt365
Well-known member
Took me a while to get used to that with the Tuono. I still prefer blipping it when coming to a light. Now I let the auto blip do its thing when I'm mid corner.
A pipe on the v4 sounds amazing, but the burble and pop of the unburnt fuel in the exhaust when you engage the quickshifter comes a close second.
Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk
As R3 described a properly done rev matched downshift “uses” virtually no clutch at all, assuming you’re talking the consumable portion, IE the friction material.
Every start from a standing stop uses more friction material than tens or hundreds of thousands of properly matched downshifts in which the plates are basically doing nothing except opening and closing at the virtually the exact same speeds due to the revolutions matching. That seems to be the bit you're not understanding.
What if I told you that on Class 8 trucks you shift all day long both you and down without a clutch? And the transmissions are unsynchronized, the same as a motorcycle.
And what if I told you that unless you match the RPM’s absolutely perfectly on both up and downsides that the transmission simply won’t accept the gear. It physically won’t go in if you don’t rev match the transmission to the engine on both up and downshifts.
And what if I told you that a skilled driver can go up and down through hundreds or thousands of shifts every work day, shifting like butter every time because of rev matching?
Now you’re suggesting that even a pro racer on a MC isn’t capable of doing the same?
BTW, go RE-read my response with regards to traction issues generated by not rev matching your downshifting. Question: Do you use your front brake when decelerating hard, or just the rear?
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I use it often for 6-5-4-3-2 downshifts. I've tried it a few times 2-1 and sometimes get a false (true?) neutral which is unfortunate if you expect there to be engine braking and suddenly there's not
Of course I also manually clutch/shift down just to keep the skill honed.
Yeah, the Akra + QS sounds sublime. It's like standing in the pits of Jerez when a motogp bike tears past on the straight.
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