Recommending small bikes for new riders in the GTA | GTAMotorcycle.com

Recommending small bikes for new riders in the GTA

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sevet

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So this has been on my mind pretty much as soon as I got my bike earlier this year. So it seems like the general recommendation you find anywhere is you should start on a 250/300 unless:

- You have previous riding experience
- You know you're gonna be doing a lot of highway

But I think there should be a third (and possibly a 4th) criteria:

- if you live somewhere where there are nothing but flat, straight roads near you
- and possibly, if you've driven fast manual transmission cars before

So before I took my M1x course earlier this year, I had never ridden a motorcycle. I did my course, picked up my new (to me) motorcycle and started commuting on it the very next day. I felt pretty comfortable being on a motorcycle and in traffic, so I decided I'd go the trial by fire way instead of putting around in parking lots. And I think within 2-3 days of picking it up, I started to realize I might've made a mistake. Now I'm not saying I'm a good or bad rider, I know I have A LOT to learn. I know that, but that doesn't change how underwhelmed I felt. This is where that 4th point I made comes in - I've always been a car guy and been fortunate enough to drive some fast cars here and there. I know most cars can't even keep up with a SS, but a 500+HP car makes a 300 feel like you're in slow motion.

Now when I've actually had the bike out on some curvy roads, it's a blast. Kawasaki did a terrific job making a bike that's so easy to ride and confidence inspiring even for a new rider like myself.

But the reality is, I live in the middle of Toronto. That means I have to go out of my way and plan in advance to find any decent roads that aren't just completely flat and straight. I commute on my bike daily from Toronto to Markham, so 95%+ of my overall riding is done on straight roads. And with how fast modern family cars are nowadays (and how lead footed some drivers can be), I can't even pull ahead at a light to change lanes or whatever without winding the N300 up a decent amount. I'm not going to complain about how the bike feels on the highway since that's not what the bike was designed to do so it would be silly to complain about it.

So with that all said, I think the geography of where you're going to be doing the majority of your riding should be a bigger factor in choosing what kind of bike to get. I wish I started on something a little bigger.

EDIT: Yes I'm a newbie, I only have a month under my belt. But am I the only one to think that geography should be considered?
 
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Three days of riding experience and you're recommending what motorcycle to start with based on geography?
 
matthew said:
Three days of riding experience and you're recommending what motorcycle to start with based on geography?
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Been riding for a month now, and the point was I think geography should be taken into consideration. It seemed to me like nobody really considers it.
 
Why Not? Mighty Mike made a lot of advances in less than a full season.

In all seriousness... You made a great choice in bike. However, a decent option would be something like a SV 650. Something with more torque lower down which would give you more accessible power in normal riding situations.

Keep that 300 for the rest of the year and gain all the experience you can. A 650ish bike like the Ninja 650 might make a decent next bike. Powerband is less peaky than an out and out Supersport.

The CBR500 would also make a nice bike for you but you are going to take a depreciation bath if you switch bikes right now. At least finish the season and then take an honest look at your skills and what you want from a bike.
 
Zoodles95 said:
Why Not? Mighty Mike made a lot of advances in less than a full season.

In all seriousness... You made a great choice in bike. However, a decent option would be something like a SV 650. Something with more torque lower down which would give you more accessible power in normal riding situations.

Keep that 300 for the rest of the year and gain all the experience you can. A 650ish bike like the Ninja 650 might make a decent next bike. Powerband is less peaky than an out and out Supersport.

The CBR500 would also make a nice bike for you but you are going to take a depreciation bath if you switch bikes right now. At least finish the season and then take an honest look at your skills and what you want from a bike.
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I'm already eyeing possible replacements, with the SV650/Ninja 650 as the most likely choices. As a M2 holder, I know I'd get killed on insurance on a SS so I'm not even considering those right now.

And I know if I started on a 650, it very may well could be a handful and I might not feel as confident as I do now on my Ninja.

As for depreciation, I did alright on the used 300 so I don't think I'd be completely upside down if I decided to sell it right now but who knows. But realistically, I won't be switching rides until next season either way.
 
sevet said:
Been riding for a month now, and the point was I think geography should be taken into consideration. It seemed to me like nobody really considers it.
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Good grief charlie brown...maybe the reason no one considers it is because it's not relevant to the discussion. ;)

I read your first post and to summarize you should have got a bigger bike because there are only straight roads in your neighborhood/commute and you can't pass modern family cars? Drop a gear and wring the throttles neck. You'll get past no problem.
 
JoeyB said:
Good grief charlie brown...maybe the reason no one considers it is because it's not relevant to the discussion. ;)

I read your first post and to summarize you should have got a bigger bike because there are only straight roads in your neighborhood/commute and you can't pass modern family cars? Drop a gear and wring the throttles neck. You'll get past no problem.
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Well like I mentioned, sure if I wring it out I can. Is it that ridiculous that I find it annoying not to have bottom end power?
hzHuN5N.gif
 
As a commute, the 250/300 is nice, you'll love it when you start sitting in traffic in middle of the summer. Bigger bikes are generally much much hotter idling than the smaller 250/300.

And if you can't pull out in front of a car to pass him, just drop 2 gears, it's part of the fun IMO (you still kind of have to do this in a 600SS). And as much as Toronto is full of flat straight roads, the idea where people recommend 250/300 is that there are a lot to learn in the first X km of riding, and having a smaller bike eliminates some variables in the equation. e.g. Learning isn't always about hitting that 30km stretch of twisties, learning not to dump your clutch, learning throttle control mid corners, smooth shifting, hard braking etc etc. Those are things where if you screwed up on a small bike, it's not as big of a deal, but on a bigger bike, dumping clutch could be a bike flying out from under you, a low side from too much power while leaned over, flipped over the bars from braking too hard etc.
 
sevet said:
Well like I mentioned, sure if I wring it out I can. Is it that ridiculous that I find it annoying not to have bottom end power?
hzHuN5N.gif
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Yeah a little bit. Like a car, you don't go buy a Honda then complain about it not having torque. Parallel twins and inline 4 are inherently low in torque in the bottom end, if a torquey bike is what you are looking, then you're look at 1000s or V-twins.......or Harleys.
 
thephenom said:
Yeah a little bit. Like a car, you don't go buy a Honda then complain about it not having torque. Parallel twins and inline 4 are inherently low in torque in the bottom end, if a torquey bike is what you are looking, then you're look at 1000s or V-twins.......or Harleys.
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Yes I know it's silly complaining about the lack of power when I made the decision to buy a parallel twin 300. But that again ties back to my initial thought of is a 250/300 really enough?

But I completely get what you said in your previous post about taking out some of the potential dangers when you start on a smaller bike. I guess it goes back to you can't have your cake and eat it too...
 
sevet said:
Yes I know it's silly complaining about the lack of power when I made the decision to buy a parallel twin 300. But that again ties back to my initial thought of is a 250/300 really enough?

But I completely get what you said in your previous post about taking out some of the potential dangers when you start on a smaller bike. I guess it goes back to you can't have your cake and eat it too...
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A 300 is plenty. I have a former co-worker who bought a new Ninja 300 a few seasons back. He is still learning and enjoying it. People used to ride across the country on old CB 500s and other bikes that weighed more and had similar power to your bike. The lack of torque is probably the biggest thing bugging you right now. Something like the SV 650 which is a V Twin will give you more torque in lower speed situations but again I would at least ride the season on that 300 before getting your next bike.
 
If 95% of your usage of the bike is commuting, if think we can agree that you don't need tons of power. As the likeliness (sp!?) of you going over a 100 km/h is probably 5% of your commute. And under 100km/h a 300 won't feel that underwhelming.

After a season of 14k km and having ridden the duke 690 on a test ride (i wanna try a lot more of them this season in the 650-700 range)... i found that staying in 1st and 2nd most of the time is kinda boring compared to going through the gears on my 500.
And that's probably the bigger part of the stuff you'll be doing in stop and go traffic.

Obviously that my point of view and also the fact that insurance is such a rapist... the 600+ class will have wait for me.
 
LePhillou said:
If 95% of your usage of the bike is commuting, if think we can agree that you don't need tons of power. As the likeliness (sp!?) of you going over a 100 km/h is probably 5% of your commute. And under 100km/h a 300 won't feel that underwhelming.

After a season of 14k km and having ridden the duke 690 on a test ride (i wanna try a lot more of them this season in the 650-700 range)... i found that staying in 1st and 2nd most of the time is kinda boring compared to going through the gears on my 500.
And that's probably the bigger part of the stuff you'll be doing in stop and go traffic.

Obviously that my point of view and also the fact that insurance is such a rapist... the 600+ class will have wait for me.
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I think about 50% of the bike is commuting, I try to fit in 2-300 km of riding throughout the week/weekend outside of commuting, but unfortunately most of that happens on straight roads in/around Toronto...

I think underwhelming might've been the wrong word. I think my personal expectation of being on a motorcycle was that it would have much more of a "WOAH" factor, but obviously I probably chose the wrong bike if I wanted that factor :D
 
sevet said:
I think about 50% of the bike is commuting, I try to fit in 2-300 km of riding throughout the week/weekend outside of commuting, but unfortunately most of that happens on straight roads in/around Toronto...

I think underwhelming might've been the wrong word. I think my personal expectation of being on a motorcycle was that it would have much more of a "WOAH" factor, but obviously I probably chose the wrong bike if I wanted that factor :D
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A 250 on dirt would most likely "whoa" you lol
 
starboy869 said:
Wow. 1 month and all ready for an SS. I recommend a bmw s1000rr
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I think you missed the part where I said I'd consider a SV650...seems like a common enough first bike recommendation by most
 
sevet said:
Been riding for a month now, and the point was I think geography should be taken into consideration. It seemed to me like nobody really considers it.
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Geography does come into question.. in Nth America, "Bigger is Better" is the attitude. In Europe "Whats the efficient way from A to B", In Asia "How can I move my family around".

In Nth America there's this whole BIG is best view. Its only been the insurance industry curbing this idea with the inflated insurance premiums thats created a defacto 250/300 market. Elsewhere, you have graduated licencing with restrictions like 24mths on 250cc or less.

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sevet said:
I'd love to try dirt bikes/MX, but I don't know anybody with one or access to one :D
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go to TrailTours.ca - Great for street riders to understand how to handle a bike in adverse conditions like gravel. Helped me on my street bike when riding back roads that are gravel.
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