It's roughly April to November, but its dependent on the weather, not on you or the machine.
Pros + Cons/The Right Time?
- Thread starter NinjaNams
- Start date
I started at 17. I saw my friends do a lot of stupid things. The death rates on bikes shot up in the 2000s because a 600 is now 120hp.
In retrospect, Ontario MOT needs to get its head out or its arse and restrict bikes by age, like they do in Europe, or get the insurance industry to handle it, which is what they have done. I don't think any rider should have more than 125 for the first thee years, 250 for the next three.
While it's all cool to blame cars and pretend that loud pipes save lives, most riders crash because they lose control of the bike.
and now, some science:
The human brain during development undergoes periods of 'synaptic pruning', this is a time when neurons are lost as the brain re-configures with the growing body. At this time, impulse control is weakened, cognition can be impaired, and people risk take. This corresponds to ages 15-18, or later. There is good science to explain why 15-18 year olds should not drive cars, or enter the military.
With the pragmatic benefits of starting on a 50cc scooter, they are still fun two wheelers. I don't think any of the scooter haters have spent any amount of time with one, so take the negative comments and attitudes with healthy skepticism. Last month, I did close to 800km in one day for the Mad Bastard Scooter Rally on a BWS50, then a week later I went to the Tail of the Dragon and rode that with my VFR800. While the scoot and the bike gave different riding experiences, I had loads of fun with both excursions.
Only for fair weather riders. OP we used to ride all year in university - you just avoid slushy days.
Lots of scoot riders ride all year
This was last January before I left for Australia and I was not the only one out. Sabex rides all year on a sport bike.
I think I got in a lovely 150k that day
Snow mobile gear lets you ride whenever the roads are snow free regardless of temps especially for local rides.
Kid and I used to go out at midnight to shop - him on the Zuma and me on the Burgman and that was anytime the roads were snow/slush free.
He still rides his 650 to work every day pretty much year round.
Where you are I"d consider a KLX250 or some such for a second bike. Very good all around and you can get over to Ganaraska for the trails there.
Ontario sucks for sport bike roads and the upright seating on a KLX means much better visibility - something that applies to the scooter as well.
I would however take the $900 safety course - that will give you car skills and cheaper insurance as will the motorcycle courses.
Get in there on your birthday and sign up for licence and courses. It used to be a right of passage with some snuck in drives ahead of time in dads car ( with him aboard of course )
You are in a semi-rural area so that's a great spot to base from.
2 years and you can easily take long weekend ride to Pennsylvania - it's only 5 hours on any 250 and stunning roads.
klx250 you could ride at CHatsworth as well if dad gets a trailer and learn some real off road skills....even take the week long moto course.
http://www.motoparkracing.com/
Just don't get run over by the 4 and 5 year olds blasting about.
Look how small those two little kids are - I just about got erased by a 3 year old at full throttle with training wheels...
and a KLX is fun off road or on.
You'll have way more fun with that than a Ninja 250 as a second bike
BTW nothing preventing you doing the 5 day motocross camp this year .....just sayin'
Lots of scoot riders ride all year
This was last January before I left for Australia and I was not the only one out. Sabex rides all year on a sport bike.
I think I got in a lovely 150k that day
Snow mobile gear lets you ride whenever the roads are snow free regardless of temps especially for local rides.
Kid and I used to go out at midnight to shop - him on the Zuma and me on the Burgman and that was anytime the roads were snow/slush free.
He still rides his 650 to work every day pretty much year round.
Where you are I"d consider a KLX250 or some such for a second bike. Very good all around and you can get over to Ganaraska for the trails there.
Ontario sucks for sport bike roads and the upright seating on a KLX means much better visibility - something that applies to the scooter as well.
I would however take the $900 safety course - that will give you car skills and cheaper insurance as will the motorcycle courses.
Get in there on your birthday and sign up for licence and courses. It used to be a right of passage with some snuck in drives ahead of time in dads car ( with him aboard of course )
You are in a semi-rural area so that's a great spot to base from.
2 years and you can easily take long weekend ride to Pennsylvania - it's only 5 hours on any 250 and stunning roads.
klx250 you could ride at CHatsworth as well if dad gets a trailer and learn some real off road skills....even take the week long moto course.
http://www.motoparkracing.com/
Just don't get run over by the 4 and 5 year olds blasting about.
Look how small those two little kids are - I just about got erased by a 3 year old at full throttle with training wheels...
and a KLX is fun off road or on.
You'll have way more fun with that than a Ninja 250 as a second bike
BTW nothing preventing you doing the 5 day motocross camp this year .....just sayin'
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Type17
Well-known member
That's straight up draconic and motorsports development goes against that science. I'm glad you don't have any control over this, I hated guys like you when I was growing up.
Just cuz you or your friends couldn't handle the heat, doesn't mean the rest of the world should put up with dumbass regulation like that.
So are you saying it's cool for a 16 yr old to be riding a modern 600 on the street as his/her first bike??
NinjaNams
Active member
Being a 16 year old I can solemnly say to you that I would never even tweak the throttle on a 600 until I have at least a year under my belt. Maybe others are more thrill seeking than I (I am quite adventurous). but there is a clear line between having fun and being a dumb a**, excuse my language. Any one who buys a motorcycle should spend a lot of time researching, and if after all the research they still feel that a 600 is a good beginner bike, they need to learn the hard way. I have seen/heard far to many things to even turn me onto a ss beginner bike. I am not saying it should be aloud, it would surely be a lot safer if there were a law saying nothing over 400cc within your first season of riding, but each to their own.
Ask any U.K rider on this site if they had issues with being limited to a 50cc at 16 years old, majority will probably tell you they are better riders because of starting out on something small.
Graduated licencing works fine in the rest of the world. Maybe because they don't have Tim Hortons parking lots......
Graduated licencing works fine in the rest of the world. Maybe because they don't have Tim Hortons parking lots......
They would be better to parallel Australia where even some 650s are learner approved ( KLR650 for one ) as it's horsepower to weight restricted and none are larger than 650.
My riding partner who has been riding for 35 years and thinks nothing of charging off for a 2,000 km ride in the outback off road can't ride my ST1100 there.
He would have take an additional test to get the approved licence.
Australia along with Japan is the only one with the sweet CBR400 Four to meet that criteria.
Insurance there is very inexpensive.
My ST1100 set up in solo seat mode costs $137 per year for liability.
But they are strict on the graduated licence and also pretty strict on the highway speed. Got lights flashed at me and I was only about 12 kph over - cop did not turn around and there is "no argument" speed camera's as well.
But in the outback some stretches are 130 kph.
Better system. You must take a riding course OR at all times be accompanied by a full licenced motorcycle rider either on another bike or in a car for 3 months......
Europe is moving to graduated on HP rating as well - one reason Honda developed the CB500 series to meet those regulations.
For now - here ....we're SOL and pay through the nose
No, I think what he's saying is that people need to be held accountable for their own actions. Too much god damn hand holding going on already and when there's too much hand holding, it goes into stupid areas like dictatorship or the HTA172.
Type17
Well-known member
Yes, I am... I couldn't care less if he drove it one foot off the lot and dumped it, that's just Darwin at work. What's it to me if he wrecks? He could wreck on anything, or even worse, he could hit you while driving his mum's Escalade. I'm a strong supporter that everyone should be able to drive anything they can afford. You don't need the state to tell you what to drive, you just need some common sense and some restraint. If you don't have those things, you'll be a statistic and that's all there is to it. There are laws anyway so if you're caught riding too fast at too young an age, you won't be riding anymore.
I got my 2nd car shortly after high school. It happened to be an older sports car and when my family and friends saw that it was red and had stuff like "turbo" written on it, they all started acting like I'd never be able to handle it cuz so and so has been driving for 50 yrs and he's still a moron. Lo and behold, yrs later I've moved on, unscathed, with a clean record, and I had a blast through university too. I would've hated not being able to drive my car because some ****** in power happens to be composed entirely of driving anti-talent and he thinks anything other than a horse and buggy is instant death.
I'm surprised people on a motorcycle forum would be supportive of this type of legislation.
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What's to you and the rest of us???....higher insurance rates is what.
I pay $137 a year for liability for an ST1100 in Australia with graduated licences.
I pay $715 in Ontario for a Burgman 650 for base coverage.
Get it now.?
You might be goodie two shoes but teens judgement is not mature until early 20s so reducing the risk of them doing themselves harm is simply common sense for a society that cares......apparently you don't....so we pay for your nonsense.
I pay $137 a year for liability for an ST1100 in Australia with graduated licences.
I pay $715 in Ontario for a Burgman 650 for base coverage.
Get it now.?
You might be goodie two shoes but teens judgement is not mature until early 20s so reducing the risk of them doing themselves harm is simply common sense for a society that cares......apparently you don't....so we pay for your nonsense.
What's to you and the rest of us???....higher insurance rates is what.
I pay $137 a year for liability for an ST1100 in Australia with graduated licences.
I pay $715 in Ontario for a Burgman 650 for base coverage.
Get it now.?
You might be goodie two shoes but teens judgement is not mature until early 20s so reducing the risk of them doing themselves harm is simply common sense for a society that cares......apparently you don't....so we pay for your nonsense.
Are you sure that doesn't have to do with the fraud going on here?
Opinions vary doesn't matter if it's a bike related forum. Umm don't compare some crappy old sports car to a modern day 600 lol. Driving a car you can afford to make mistakes, you are wrapped around a steel cage. Whats that turbo car running in the 1/4 mile, 17 seconds
Why buy a supersport bike only to ride it sensibly on the streets is baffling to me?? Plus there is not a 16 yr old on the planet that has enough maturity to not want to beat the living **** out of one these bikes, the temptation is too great.
Type17
Well-known member
What's to you and the rest of us???....higher insurance rates is what.
I pay $137 a year for liability for an ST1100 in Australia with graduated licences.
I pay $715 in Ontario for a Burgman 650 for base coverage.
Get it now.?
You might be goodie two shoes but teens judgement is not mature until early 20s so reducing the risk of them doing themselves harm is simply common sense for a society that cares......apparently you don't....so we pay for your nonsense.
No man, you pay for the nonsense of the parents of the ignorant teens on the road. You pay nothing due to me. Not being a moron doesn't make me a goody two shoes. It makes me a person with a modicum of common sense with a passion for motorsports and because I wasn't a dumb *** when I was a child, I can now afford to live that passion to some degree. Dumbasses gotta pay to play.
I wasn't aware you wanted to be motorcycling for free or for nominal fees. If the price of insurance is too high for you to handle hop on a bicycle or use public transport. When insurance rates become too high for me to handle, I'll move on to some other hobby.
If you want better insurance rates, why not improve legislation to force people into driving or riding school rather than insist on removing riding options at the expense of those like me that want a sport bike and could afford it but can't buy it because of some arbitrary law.
Type17
Well-known member
Opinions vary doesn't matter if it's a bike related forum. Umm don't compare some crappy old sports car to a modern day 600 lol. Driving a car you can afford to make mistakes, you are wrapped around a steel cage. Whats that turbo car running in the 1/4 mile, 17 seconds
Why buy a supersport bike only to ride it sensibly on the streets is baffling to me?? Plus there is not a 16 yr old on the planet that has enough maturity to not want to beat the living **** out of one these bikes, the temptation is too great.
12 seconds is what it runs since we're measuring peens. I wasn't saying the car doesn't offer more protection, I was saying the mentality is nothing more than a generalization and punishes responsible drivers/riders.
What you do with the car or bike is not my business.
Well it's cool if you don't care about this sport/hobby. Sounds like you are a typical 2-3 year rider who will soon move on to something else. For me I rather see some restrictions for the younger riders so they can last a lifetime riding bikes.
12 secs who cares....
12 secs who cares....
Type17
Well-known member
See? Again, you're making generalizations. I obviously care about the hobby enough to pay for the necessary cost, and again, it's none of your business for how long I ride. (I really like it and will ride as long as I possibly can. I loved bikes before I loved cars, I went with cars 1st since they're more accessible to younger people)
If you paid to take boxing and then, as your coach, I told you that for the next 6 yrs you will do nothing but skipping rope at price X then I'd teach you how to hit a bag, or for price Y I could teach you how to properly box and turn you into a relatively competitive fighter in more or less the same time frame, where Y>X, would you not pay the extra fee?
That's all there is to it, some of us want to box while others are content skipping rope.
As for the 12 secs, I care. There aren't too many reasonably priced cars on the road with those sorts of numbers, and believe me it's plenty to have some fun.
just what don't you get about it costing you more so yes it IS your business. You are setting yourself up as some superior being as a teen and just maybe you were lucky instead as I was.
There is a reason we don't let younger people fly planes or get licences earlier than a certain age.
Don't drag libby politics into a society that wants nothing to do with it.
I can afford 3 bikes on two different continents and ride 12 months of the year so that dog won't hunt.
What is stupid is the set up here compared to other jurisdictions....everyone gets hosed.
Yes legislation is needed but not the kind you want. We need what works in other jurisdictions and keeps costs down for everyone.
There are lots of dangerous things that require licensing and a long run up to being allowed to go on your own.
Maybe you should go for your pilots licence just to see what how restrictive could be with motorcycling and driving and maybe should be.
You are under the thumb of the safety officer for a good long while until you have some experience and proven skills and then you move up the fleet and lots don't make it and every senior pilot is keeping an eye on your flying.
As a result our sailplane insurance is very low for all of us but you don't get to hop in a sailplane and fly...you get well trained .and as you move up the fleet you get trained and retrained.....and it ends up a very very safe sport.
Compare that to ultralights....which are about where mcycling is now in Ontario. Not much restriction and too many deaths.
Other jurisdictions do it better and costs the rider far less.....they are on the correct track - you aren't.
Type17
Well-known member
By liberal I hope you mean in the real sense, not in the late sipping more regulation sense.
We can differ on what sort of regulation is necessary, I happen to think we need a different kind. You like removing options, I don't. No need to be belligerent, a large part of my research in university focused on insurance, I'm well aware of how premiums are set and how the client pools affect them. Let me ask you something, if insurance cost on sport bikes is prohibitively expensive for all new riders except the most adamant lovers of sports bikes, would that not change the composition of the pool setting the premium? It would let those that really want it to get it all while reducing the number of SS bikes in those particular age/experience brackets. It would achieve what you want without the stupid legislation.
That being said, what part of "i'm willing to pay more for the choice to ride w/e I want" do YOU not understand? Sailplanes are not motorbikes, if I can't foot the cost, I don't get into flying. Also, bikes=/=sail planes... I don't expect all legislation to be the same.
EDIT: forgot to mention, I would've said that I was more patient and calculated than the avg teen and I recognized that there were people smarter than me. When those people would talk, I'd stfu and try to hear what they're saying. I took good advice and saw those around me deal with problems that I didn't want to face, partially because I was worried about my future, partially because my parents took no ****.
EDIT 2: BTW man, don't take what I'm saying personally. I wasn't trying to insult you when I was saying if insurance is too high then you can take the bus. I was just saying that the insurance price is a barrier to entry in the sport and those that can't afford it just don't enter, like with any good. I wasn't making any statement about you in particular.
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