New speed signs

TK4

TK4

Well-known member
Both Ottawa and Toronto say the signs they received from the Ford government to replace their banned speed cameras are too big to fit on the poles they currently have, meaning the province will have to pay for new poles and installation.
Earlier in November, Ontario’s ban on speed cameras came into force, after Premier Doug Ford repeatedly claimed big signs and flashing lights were a more effective way to slow people down than automated speed enforcement.
As part of its moves to remove speed cameras, the province said it would provide large, temporary slow-down signs to cities and then offer them infrastructure funding for broader changes in the new year.
When the signs arrived, however, they proved to be too large for the poles in school zones that cities had planned to mount them on.
“We have received signs for 20 school zones, and yes, they’re too big; we have to get new poles,” Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow said on Wednesday. “The province said they would cover the cost.”
A spokesperson for the City of Ottawa, where bilingual signs appear to be even larger than Toronto’s, confirmed theirs were also too big and that the province would be handling the cost of adding new poles to mount them on.
Transportation Minister Prabmeet Sarkaria’s office said cities had been told weeks ago the province would pay for new poles if required and briefed on the size of the signs.
“I think the City of Ottawa, as part of their allocation, were given a lot of money to prepare for that and find appropriate poles to put the signs on,” Sarkaria told reporters on Wednesday.
 
TK4 said:
Both Ottawa and Toronto say the signs they received from the Ford government to replace their banned speed cameras are too big to fit on the poles they currently have, meaning the province will have to pay for new poles and installation.
Earlier in November, Ontario’s ban on speed cameras came into force, after Premier Doug Ford repeatedly claimed big signs and flashing lights were a more effective way to slow people down than automated speed enforcement.
As part of its moves to remove speed cameras, the province said it would provide large, temporary slow-down signs to cities and then offer them infrastructure funding for broader changes in the new year.
When the signs arrived, however, they proved to be too large for the poles in school zones that cities had planned to mount them on.
“We have received signs for 20 school zones, and yes, they’re too big; we have to get new poles,” Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow said on Wednesday. “The province said they would cover the cost.”
A spokesperson for the City of Ottawa, where bilingual signs appear to be even larger than Toronto’s, confirmed theirs were also too big and that the province would be handling the cost of adding new poles to mount them on.
Transportation Minister Prabmeet Sarkaria’s office said cities had been told weeks ago the province would pay for new poles if required and briefed on the size of the signs.
“I think the City of Ottawa, as part of their allocation, were given a lot of money to prepare for that and find appropriate poles to put the signs on,” Sarkaria told reporters on Wednesday.
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Wah wah wah, give us more money. She is the whiniest and least solution-oriented person on the planet. Mount them to a light post, power pole, etc. But no, give us more money is always her answer to everything.
 
TK4 said:
And if Doug hadn't tripped over his - you know - there wouldn't have been a problem.
If he tried harder to be Premier and not so hard to be mayor we'd all be better off.
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If a politician at any level (and ideally all levels) focused on stopping the bleeding and spending millions/billions on stupid virtue signalling ideas we would all be better off as the tax burden would be much lower. They all focus on increasing revenue so they can waste more money. Most belong in jail.
 
All of this stinks, and just reeks of stupidity, but of course the taxpayers are on the hook for all this nonsense.

It amazes me how they fast tracked the stopping of the speed cameras and the removal, yet other priorities are twisting in the wind. The camera in my area is already gone.

There was some chatter I saw about school buses and speed bumps, don't mix well, plus add in snow plows. Not sure if any of it has any real consideration. But we all know large sign's are going to do fuk all for speeders.
 
sburns said:
All of this stinks, and just reeks of stupidity, but of course the taxpayers are on the hook for all this nonsense.

It amazes me how they fast tracked the stopping of the speed cameras and the removal, yet other priorities are twisting in the wind. The camera in my area is already gone.

There was some chatter I saw about school buses and speed bumps, don't mix well, plus add in snow plows. Not sure if any of it has any real consideration. But we all know large sign's are going to do fuk all for speeders.
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We need to go back to the original speed limit enforcement. Cops would put a chain across the trail and pull it tight as a vehicle approached. If you stop before you hit the chain, you were going slow enough. If you hit the chain, you were guilty. Ultimately, that's a much better test than speed. Driver paying attention with good tires can safely drive much faster than a driver that is zoned out or a vehicle with crap tires and brakes.
 
AllistonGT said:
There you go making sense again.
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Unfortunately the world is run by lawyers and there probably several legal hurdles before that is even possible, which is probably why the signs and light posts are all separate.

Either way you would think if signs created would follow standard practices and setup, it's not like they reinvented the wheel here, but nope.
 
Relax said:
How do you make brand new signs that don't fit posts of a known diameter???
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I suspect it's a loading issue. For signs larger than xx square inches, the post needs to be larger to deal with the extra wind load. Same thing happens with fence height. Cross a magic line and all posts need to be larger (and if you get really unlucky you have to switch from wood to steel) which means a small change in height can result in a big change in costs.
 
GreyGhost said:
I suspect it's a loading issue. For signs larger than xx square inches, the post needs to be larger to deal with the extra wind load. Same thing happens with fence height. Cross a magic line and all posts need to be larger (and if you get really unlucky you have to switch from wood to steel) which means a small change in height can result in a big change in costs.
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OK, but wouldn't they know all of that based on where the signs were supposed to go? I haven't been following this, but were they supposed to go on the same posts where the speed cameras were mounted? In some cases, those cameras were in boxes on the ground.
 
Relax said:
OK, but wouldn't they know all of that based on where the signs were supposed to go? I haven't been following this, but were they supposed to go on the same posts where the speed cameras were mounted? In some cases, those cameras were in boxes on the ground.
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I can't imagine that the signs are too big for camera posts. I suspect they are too big for typical speed limit/community safety zone posts.
 
As the saying goes, "It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it."

Why are people complaining about the signs not fitting when they were told about this in the first place?

"... a presentation was given to all cities, including information on the type of poles that would be required. They said municipalities were told the province would pay for new poles and install them if they asked.

Sarkaria said the “configurations” of the signs had been public since October, and cities were given “prior knowledge” of what size they would be and how they should be put up.

“When it comes down to securing a sign, I think municipalities can figure out how to install a sign,” he added.
 
They just showed off the new signs on the TV news. They look to be somewhere between 8 and 10 feet tall. They are ridiculous for a city street, better suited for a 100kmh highway. No wonder they'll need new poles.
And Doug got his panties in a twist when someone pointed that out.
 
sburns said:
There was some chatter I saw about school buses and speed bumps, don't mix well, plus add in snow plows. Not sure if any of it has any real consideration. But we all know large sign's are going to do fuk all for speeders.
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Wait til you get a ride in the back of ambulance.
 
TK4 said:
They just showed off the new signs on the TV news. They look to be somewhere between 8 and 10 feet tall. They are ridiculous for a city street, better suited for a 100kmh highway. No wonder they'll need new poles.
And Doug got his panties in a twist when someone pointed that out.
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News is reporting they are 8 to 12' tall but I think that's on the post that will be sunk at least 4' into the ground.

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