New Rider - the ABS dilema

Forum Sponsor
I know I can turn ABS off on my BMW GSA, is this not the norm with bikes with ABS? I am all for getting ABS and it should be mandatory, insurance companies wanting it or not. The stopping power and the lack of locking up the wheels makes this a great thing. I have only had it happen a few times, on my old CB919, where I locked up the rear tire in an emergency stop, on my BMW with ABS, I just pull as much break as I can and it stops, no locking up, no sliding, it just stops.
 
wonderings said:
I know I can turn ABS off on my BMW GSA, is this not the norm with bikes with ABS? I am all for getting ABS and it should be mandatory, insurance companies wanting it or not. The stopping power and the lack of locking up the wheels makes this a great thing. I have only had it happen a few times, on my old CB919, where I locked up the rear tire in an emergency stop, on my BMW with ABS, I just pull as much break as I can and it stops, no locking up, no sliding, it just stops.
Click to expand...

I understand japanese bikes like Honda have ABS enabled all the time, with no switch to turn it off.
 
There is little point in ABS if you can switch it off. ABS only works when the sensors reveal the wheel is going to lock, otherwise, it does not affect the brakes at all.

Front wheel lock has to be the most common cause of a single-rider crash.

Off-road riders feel they need to disable ABS, so most bikes will have the ability to switch off ABS. S1000RRs can switch off ABS and TC.

It's all explained here:

http://www.righttoride.eu/?p=8867

In simple terms it means that we are almost back to the status quo. With regards to motorcycles fitted with ABS, the decision to include the switch is with the manufacturer and ultimately with the rider.
The choice with the rider is simply one of going to the dealer and deciding whether he or she wants to have a bike that is sold with or without a switch. In other words you the rider will be able to choose with your wallet.As an example, the latest model of BMW’s S1000RR can be fitted with optional electronic rider assistance systems. It is possible to buy as optional extras, electronic rider assistance systems: Race ABS (Antilock Braking System) and DTC (Dynamic Traction Control) which is only available with Race ABS (Antilock Braking System), DTC adjusts engine torque to the current level of grip. Also available is Gear Shift Assist which allows the gearbox to change up gears without any discernible interruption to the power delivery, all at a price of course.The BMW S1000RR also comes with launch mode, power mode with 4 performance settings. The ABS (Antilock Braking System) functionality changes with the power mode selected, coming in sooner in Rain mode, then intervening nearer the tyres’ limits with each mode change towards Slick. One of the modes, “Slick” mode automatically allows the turning off the rear brake ABS (Antilock Braking System) while maintaining any benefits of the front wheel ABS (Antilock Braking System).BMW with Husqvarna will debut in 2012 what will be the world’s first anti-lock brakes for off-road bikes, Husqvarna is relying on the mechanicals of the ABS already in use by BMW on the afore mentioned S1000RR, the new dual-channel system will have two modes to toggle between on and off-road use.
 
Last edited:
Modern ABS is amazing. There are some bikes still out there with old-school ABS that pulses the lever and is not quite as functional, but ABS using the newer Bosch system or Honda's in-house system (which is much heavier but very good) is outstanding. You'll find it on the top superbikes today including the RSV4, S1000RR, KTM 1290 Superduke, 1199 Panigale R, and others... if it's good enough for those bikes, surely it's good enough for any.
 
CafeRay said:
ABS and TC is already on AMA racing. MotoGP bikes have TC. This poser, "too cool for ABS" attitude usually comes from people who end up making insurance crash statistics.
The roads are not a racetrack.
Click to expand...

OK, maybe I am a poser. I've improved the braking (320 rotor kits) on 3 of my current bikes. Sometimes I wonder why (they do look good tho). If I'm dive bombing corners enough to need the extra I'm already being a dick.
The op was not talking about the big superbikes. I'd want ABS on those for sure.
I guess abs is essential for every street bike everywhere. Have you seen the family of 5 on the stepthru?
 
The main reason I bought my CBR was ABS. I wrote off my Kawi when the front wheel locked and I lowsided. When you get into an emergency situation and grab a handful of brake instinctively it's good to know that the wheels aren't going to lock.
 
Josh P said:
The main reason I bought my CBR was ABS. I wrote off my Kawi when the front wheel locked and I lowsided. When you get into an emergency situation and grab a handful of brake instinctively it's good to know that the wheels aren't going to lock.
Click to expand...

CBRs are so rare with ABS.

OP, get a bike with ABS. Its awesome. My Ninja 300 abs already showed its worth.
 
Josh P said:
The main reason I bought my CBR was ABS. I wrote off my Kawi when the front wheel locked and I lowsided. When you get into an emergency situation and grab a handful of brake instinctively it's good to know that the wheels aren't going to lock.
Click to expand...

Please keep in mind however that ABS or any electronic nanny is not foolproof and cannot be used to break the laws of physics.

Ride Safe.
 
CafeRay said:
There is little point in ABS if you can switch it off.
Click to expand...

No ... there are certain conditions where ABS interferes with what the rider is trying to do.

Think outside the box of commuting and day-to-day traffic for a minute. Many types of bikes are meant to be fun things. If you are trail riding on a street legal dual purpose bike, you need the ability to slide (partially locking) at least the rear wheel. Means at least the rear ABS has to be switched off.

Or ... Stunt riding. Face it, people do this stuff. If the bike is provided with ABS with an "off" switch, then the rider is free to do their thing in the stunt-riding lots, but at the same time, if the same rider uses the same bike for daily commuting, they can leave the ABS on in that situation.

In either of these situations (and there are more), if a rider is forced to buy a new bike that has non-switchable ABS, they are gonna find a way to not have ABS (i.e. remove the system entirely from the bike) and thus they lose the benefit of using the ABS when they are using the same bike day-to-day in traffic. It's better to have ABS, and with certain classes of bikes, it's better to have an "off" switch.

An article linked to above, describes the ABS/TC system on the BMW S1000RR. It has not only ABS "off", but varying levels of ABS intervention depending on which traction-control mode is selected.

I would want ABS/TC on my next street bike ... but if I want to do a wheelie or burnout, I don't want it interfering ...
 
Snobike Mike said:
Please keep in mind however that ABS or any electronic nanny is not foolproof and cannot be used to break the laws of physics.

Ride Safe.
Click to expand...

Aye, but it can help make better use of them.

I HAVE had a car turn left in front of me so closely that I knew I would hit the car, and I did - with the front wheel locked and in the process of low-siding. When a situation like that comes up, even for a rider with 20 years of experience including several years of roadracing (that was the case at the time), there is no modulating the brake. You instinctively grab it. In the situation that I had, the bike didn't finish low-siding before I hit the car, but had the situation happened with a little more distance but a little higher speed, the bike would have been sliding on its side before hitting the car. There is more grip available from the tires to the ground, than from the bodywork etc. You'll stop faster by staying upright on the tires but making full use of available traction (only practical in real-world scenarios with ABS) than by locking the front brake and sliding into the obstacle.
 
black_CG2 said:
so a bike with abs cant do wheelies? :(
Click to expand...

ABS doesn't affect that, but traction control can. There are many versions of traction control, differing in hardware and software. Some modes on some systems do have wheelie control. For racetrack riding, it's faster to NOT do big wheelies. For stunting, it kinda defeats the purpose, which is why the good systems provide a selection of different operating modes.
 
Brian P said:
Aye, but it can help make better use of them.

I HAVE had a car turn left in front of me so closely that I knew I would hit the car, and I did - with the front wheel locked and in the process of low-siding. When a situation like that comes up, even for a rider with 20 years of experience including several years of roadracing (that was the case at the time), there is no modulating the brake. You instinctively grab it. In the situation that I had, the bike didn't finish low-siding before I hit the car, but had the situation happened with a little more distance but a little higher speed, the bike would have been sliding on its side before hitting the car. There is more grip available from the tires to the ground, than from the bodywork etc. You'll stop faster by staying upright on the tires but making full use of available traction (only practical in real-world scenarios with ABS) than by locking the front brake and sliding into the obstacle.
Click to expand...

No debate that there are situations where ABS can be very beneficial as you have illustrated. Of course ABS also assumes the rider will use it correctly (for example some old schoolers still think pumping the brakes in emergency situations is the correct thing to do, or they may not wish to actually attempt full deployment of brakes, etC).

The key here is to not get complacent and think the nannies will save one's butt in every situation.
 
Snobike Mike said:
The key here is to not get complacent and think the nannies will save one's butt in every situation.
Click to expand...

It seems every time a technology comes along to make our lives safer and easier we find a way to negate the effects. Daytime running lights? Means no rear lights in rain or snowstorm. ABS/TC? Brake later power sooner. Reliable cars? Commute from Barrie. Drive thrus? 30 car line up. No sane person would argue against the advancements in isolation.
 
Brian P said:
ABS doesn't affect that, but traction control can. There are many versions of traction control, differing in hardware and software. Some modes on some systems do have wheelie control. For racetrack riding, it's faster to NOT do big wheelies. For stunting, it kinda defeats the purpose, which is why the good systems provide a selection of different operating modes.
Click to expand...

After my first few track sessions on the RSV4, I gave up on rolling the throttle open and just started whacking it open in 1st gear at the apex of a few corners. The bike just drives forward and you pick up on it kind of "moaning" a little bit as it deals with wheelspin and/or wheelies but never stops pushing the bike hard. Out of 20, 2, 4, 8, 12, 14 at 'bogie I was earlier on the throttle than I am on the 600 and often in first or second gear (1st is *really* tall) Hard to believe until you experience it.
 
Hey guys! Been watching and reading along, and checking out all the links provided. I really appreciate the time and effort put in by everyone.

And I just want you to know, you do help, and make a difference for myself. I really appreciate everyone's opinion, and by voicing both sides, is how the topic really gets thoroughly discussed.

You guys have convinced me to go with ABS. The links provided by CafeRay were really influential, but it's your experience and personal beliefs that sealed the deal.

I know nothing, that's why I've come to you guys. Enough people who know something, all said "ABS". Enough people had experiences where it did help them, or had experiences where they wished they had it.

Thanks again folks! I love you guys!

Feel free to keep the debate going, but in terms of helping the OP; you've answered my questions. My first bike will have ABS, and it's no longer optional/debatable.

PS - Here is one heck of a GREAT deal on a NEW 2013 Ninja 300 (NO ABS) $4599 from an authorized dealer. I had the cheque-book out and ready to go this morning... it's cheaper than resales on Kijiji! But I learned it's not the right bike for me... even with $1000 knocked off original MSRP.

http://motorsportspickering.com/listing/2013-kawasaki-ninja-300-2/
 
Shaman said:
After my first few track sessions on the RSV4, I gave up on rolling the throttle open and just started whacking it open in 1st gear at the apex of a few corners. The bike just drives forward and you pick up on it kind of "moaning" a little bit as it deals with wheelspin and/or wheelies but never stops pushing the bike hard. Out of 20, 2, 4, 8, 12, 14 at 'bogie I was earlier on the throttle than I am on the 600 and often in first or second gear (1st is *really* tall) Hard to believe until you experience it.
Click to expand...

Until that one day it malfunctions...
 
I've had abs and nonabs. Personally I don't think it's worth the markup especially on a beginner bike. If the bike comes with it standard then why not but on a beginner bike it isn't worth it.
Forum Sponsor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom