Matching Rev's / downshifting | GTAMotorcycle.com

Matching Rev's / downshifting

dmode

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So I have had my new CBR 250 for 4 days now. I have finally managed to upshift without any lurching 98% of the time. Downshifting is a different story. I have driven a manual transmission car for years, and always downshift to save the wear on my brakes. I find the last three gears on the bike it lurches a bit. I have been trying to match revs, but it seems so counter-intuitive. I mean I am supposed to be braking, yet I have to release the brake in order to rev up the throttle. Any tips / techniques?

Thanks!
 
There are a few methods I guess, when you have enough lead time you can use your rear brakes initially to brake gently and free up the throttle hand. Just remember that "blipping" the throttle is not a necessity, so you don't have to blip all the way to first gear.
I just relax the brake finger on the brake(If you can reach for the brake lever comfortably) and don't let it hook the gear lever. Then I just give the throttle a quick blip(you shouldn't have to twist the throttle much at all, maybe a couple mm's at most) and downshift almost at the same time(allows just enough time for the engine to wind up a little before letting the clutch engage). The blip is more like a twitch than a deliberate twist of the wrist though. As soon as I blip I apply the brakes evenly, no grabbing at the brake.
In my opinion, if you find that you seem to be doing everything all at once and in a real hurry plus needing to brake hard then you may be following too closely. Back off, and give yourself those seconds it gives you extra time to all the other things like check your mirrors or look for an escape if necessary.
Anyway, practice is really the only way to get it all down. You will get others chiming in so i'm sure there will be a dearth of info to follow.
ride safe
 
careful with the engine braking.
when engine braking, your brake lights dont come on.
you def want to tap the brake at the very least to let the people behind you know you are breaking (they cant always tell)

perhaps you are downshifting to early.
down shifting should be a gradual decline until you stop.
practice and getting to know how your specific bike works will help
it will all become second nature to you and you wont even think about it anymore.
keep riding. keep practicing. you'll be smooth in no time.
 
So there are five actions to the downshift...

1. close throttle
2. pull in the clutch lever
3. select the proper gear
4. release the clutch
5. open the throttle

On the downshift, it changes:
1. close throttle
2. pull in clutch lever
3. select gear
4. Blip the throttle and at the same time you will want your clutch lever very close to the friction zone engagement point.
5. using the three second rule, slowly enter the friction zone and release the clutch.

What am I doing with my brakes? While practicing this, nothing as it will simply confuse the issue. Later on, I'd have a light foot dragging the rear brake, but be careful, as the clutch lever becomes a third brake during a downshift when you engage it and the engine begins braking. Obviously while this is going on, you will be on the front brake.

If you think about coming in from say 6th gear to a stop light, you be downshifting through the gears with a closed throttle while applying a dab of rear brake and lots of front brake, so you're front suspenion has compressed and the weight of the bike moves forward lightening up the rear end. Remember that a downshift uses engine braking to slow the rear wheel? This is why I said a "dab" of rear brake.

Once again, you'll find you improve the rev matching or blipping if you don't try to do it while braking, so why not just cruise along, and reduce your speed with a downshift and give yourself triple your usual stopping distance so none of this is rushed and you can concentrate on the blips. Later on, once it's easier and your timing improves you can shorten the stopping distance and incorporate it into your routine stops.

The key is RIDE THE CLUTCH and pretend that you're carrying a cup of coffee on the tank.
 
I'm still learning this technique myself, but I'm finding that once you're shifting to second or even into first if you haven't been smooth its often better to not blip and just hold in the clutch and brake. That might not be the best practice though, since you're stuck out for a gear if the light changes on you.

I found my downshifting/'bliping' of the throttle really improved as I was watching some videos from:
http://www.youtube.com/user/13mordeth
In one of his videos he goes through shifting, and notes that the RPMs of his bike change by about 1000 when he shifts. That is very similar to mine, so when downshifting (I tend to downshift when I get around 4 RPMS, a really quick twitch to bring the RPMS to 5 and shift). Then you're fine. I sort of learned this by letting the clutch out slowly after a downshift to let the gears get up to speed gently and watching how the RPMS changed. Thats how I figured out mine was about 1RPMS different between gears.

You'll figure it out! Totally agree about tapping/lightly applying the rear brake through this process so people can see you're slowing down. Maybe try in a parking lot a few times, and you'll get the hang of it.
 
I'm still learning this technique myself, but I'm finding that once you're shifting to second or even into first if you haven't been smooth its often better to not blip and just hold in the clutch and brake. ...

Actually, you'll find that a HUGE blip helps match up for these gears better than anything else. In normal pratice, I too have the clutch pulled in while in second and simply coast in on the brakes before tapping down into first just before the bike stops near the limit line of the intersection.

When I get caught out in motion in second gear while slowing down, and the light turned to green, I'll give that large blip and drop into first, then ride the clutch out slowly to get going again.
 
I follow a routine similar to what Rotten Ronnie was describing. If I know I'm going to eventually stop, I'll lightly apply the rear brake to set off the brake light, while downshifting as the bike slows. Sometimes I don't downshift all the way into first - while in 2nd I just pull in the clutch and downshift as I come to a stop. If I need to slow down and downshift a little quicker, I'll apply front and rear brake, then when at the desired speed I'll release the brakes and downshift rather than blipping throttle while using front brake at the same time.

Not to confuse you with more downshifting techniques, but I'll put it out there. Rather than 'blipping' the throttle, try holding your throttle steady and sloooooooooowly release the clutch. It makes for some pretty smooth shifting.
 
4 Approaches:

Approach 1) Smooth and calm with lead in time.
1) No brakes
2) Let engine decrease speed
3) When you feel or know said speed is to low for gear, clutch in, drop a gear and smooth clutch out. Get's harder to be smooth as you go down the gears.
4) Tap rear brake to let others know ur slowing

Approach 2) Rev matching with less lead in time
1) 2 finger front brake
2) Forget the rear, as front is loaded already and engine braking will suffice.
3) Clutch in, jamb down 1 or 2 gears, depending on rate of deceleration. 2 is often good to reduce down gearing. Big throttle blip (jump up maybe 2 to 3k in revs - sometimes as much as 6k depending on engine type and speed differential (still braking with 2 fingers).
4) Feather out clutch smooth and fast. Bike lurtches into accelerated braking but not jumpy or choppy. Back tire may bobble, bounce or chirp a little. No problem, added braking as it catches up revs, and then slows you down.

Approach 3) Slipper clutch
1) get a bike with a slipper clutch
2) all the above steps are easier and smoother and almost 0 lurching unless you slam down 2 or 3 gears and dont bother rev matching.

Approach 4) Emergency braking
1) 2 finger, initial to progressive front brake.
2) 30% to 5% pressure on back brake as front end loads and rear lightens or bobbles
3) Clutch in, jamb down the gears to 1st. Hard front braking now.
4) Don't bother rev matching you dont have time or brain power.
5) When your down under 50kph jam into 1st and don't worry about the bobble....the rear is too light anyways to care...get ready for minor fish tailing. Partial feather or let go of the clutch in case of need to speed away or swerve to avoid hitting something else.

Advice...watch motogp slow-mo of riders bobbling the back wheel into turns....they are braking extremely hard before leaning, rev matching as they approach the turn and selecting the appropriate gear before, releasing the brake and feathering the clutch at the same time before leaning. Well...actually they often keep braking the front and rear well into the lean but decrease as they lean more.

Also watch their hands in reverse on boards, they will down gear and rev before the hard braking sometimes too!

So essentially.....they know before hand going into the turn it requires lets say 2nd gear, they are in 4th. Very quickly they downshift to 2nd, bike begins to brake, then quickly they add front brake. The bike will tip forward and their rear often comes up a couple centimeters. There is no point using back brake at this point because they want the tire to have traction when they get off the front brakes and reload the rear. The bike is also coming down to the appropriate rev band for the gear they selected before they started braking the front. Ideally, they want all wiggling, bobbling to be done while they are straight up, and by the time they begin to lean they want the rear to regain traction and the bike to be in the middle of the power band to be able to power out, sometimes a little under the peak power so when they apply constant throttle through the turn it isn't too jumpy. They may also opt at the point of leaning to gently apply back brake to slow rear tire rotation to scrub off more speed and to slide the rear to realign the bike for better exit vectors.

All of these steps slightly overlap one another. Meaning they may apply gentle front brake while rev matching at the begginning of deceleration. The hand can handle the more sensitive task of throttle blipping (90%) dedicated, while also 10% dedicated to the first stage (less sensitive at this point) of progressive front braking to load the front. When the front is beginning to load, and the work of engine braking has been done (i.e. the hand is now free to dedicate 100% to front braking, aaaaaaand the rear has scrubbed off effective speed - now no longer effective as the front is loaded and doing 90% of the bike's braking), the hand can be left to only deal with the front brake and also feel the bikes responses through the brake lever (sense vibrations, sponginess, chatter, etc.), and as the bike settles into the desired speed for the turn, the delicate task of trail braking into the turn receives 100% hand concentration. Again we have overlapping of front brake, decreasing as lean angle increases.

But first.....when you're just starting out, keep them seperate and simple. If you have time go down each gear, get used to it, get faster and better at it. If you don't have time, clutch in and bang down the gears, concentrating on front brake mostly. As you get better you will be able to dedicate mental and physical resources according to time, lean angle, knowledge of appropriate gear / speed, and so on. It becomes a harmonious symphony at the end, every body part instinctively knowing its roll through muscle memory!
 
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Thanks for all the help guys. I was trying out some of these techniques today. Its true the more actions I try to do the more complicated it becomes, and the more mistakes I make, so eventually I just had to give up on doing everything at once and just tried one technique at a time.
 
I don't mean to threadjack, this is somewhat on topic. When I was learning to ride, and reading all the books, I read somewhere that it was harmful to a motorcycle transmission to change several gears without letting out the clutch in between each gear. But alaywa is right, there's a lot to think about when performing an emergency braking maneuver. Letting out the clutch during emergency braking can tend to lengthen the braking zone if you're not careful (for newish riders, like myself).

So what's the truth behind this?
 
Emergency braking in a nutrshell:

Wtf!? Omfg!? Get on the brakes! Harder! We're still gonna hit!!! HS that was close! WTF was he doing? Why are my legs so shaky and my heart is beating like a hammer in my chest?

That's if you practice threshold braking. You don't even need a clutch in the above example, as avoiding the trunk of the car is much more important than a stall, and anyone who says they can downshift during an emergency stop has never quite been in an emergency.

Just whack in the clutch and practice applying both brakes progressively and smoothing. Practice it often, at the start of a new season, with a each different bike you can.

Back the rev matching. Spend more time on the bike and less time on the internet and you'll get it eventually. ;)
 

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