Is this Legal ? Condo interior road riding ?

chiller

chiller

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Forum Sponsor
I just thought of something today while looking at the plans for my new neighborhood. I have a townhouse that will be in a 'condo' complex. the only common element in the whole place is the road, the rest is freehold. we will be paying 30 bucks / month for snow and garbage removal only, nothing else. there's 2 entrances (no gates) to the complex.

so is it 'legal' for me to ride my unplated, uninsured track bike on that road ? since it is not a technically 'public' road its an 'interior' condo road ?

just curious what everyone's take is on this, I'm sure I cannot be the only one who is in this boat...
 
chiller said:
I just thought of something today while looking at the plans for my new neighborhood. I have a townhouse that will be in a 'condo' complex. the only common element in the whole place is the road, the rest is freehold. we will be paying 30 bucks / month for snow and garbage removal only, nothing else. there's 2 entrances (no gates) to the complex.

so is it 'legal' for me to ride my unplated, uninsured track bike on that road ? since it is not a technically 'public' road its an 'interior' condo road ?

just curious what everyone's take is on this, I'm sure I cannot be the only one who is in this boat...
Click to expand...

That's a good question - it's even more specific than the private property of a shopping mall, because you're one of the owners. Would it compare to one of those gated communities where everyone rides around in golf carts? If so, you should do that for the winter...
 
Emefef said:
That's a good question - it's even more specific than the private property of a shopping mall, because you're one of the owners. Would it compare to one of those gated communities where everyone rides around in golf carts? If so, you should do that for the winter...
Click to expand...


well technically it is private property like you said i am 1 / 80th owner of the common element....
 
chiller said:
well technically it is private property like you said i am 1 / 80th owner of the common element....
Click to expand...

What's written in the Code of Conduct for shared space/common elements?
 
nfq said:
What's written in the Code of Conduct for shared space/common elements?
Click to expand...

haven't seen it yet since it is a new build...

is the "road" a private road and thus not subject to the rules of the HTA ? and only subject to the code of conduct of the resident book ?
 
chiller said:
haven't seen it yet since it is a new build...

is the "road" a private road and thus not subject to the rules of the HTA ? and only subject to the code of conduct of the resident book ?
Click to expand...

In the case of operating a motor vehicle on private property where HTA might not apply, could they not get you for Dangerous Driving or something under the criminal code ?
I mean, they can ticket you for no plates even if you're on private property.

Edit: Not quite a Condo, but mall parking lot: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-shopping-centre-parking-lots/article4216574/
 
nfq said:
In the case of operating a motor vehicle on private property where HTA might not apply, could they not get you for Dangerous Driving or something under the criminal code ?
I mean, they can ticket you for no plates even if you're on private property.

Edit: Not quite a Condo, but mall parking lot: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-shopping-centre-parking-lots/article4216574/
Click to expand...

interesting ... actually you don't even need a plate ... the only thing they can get you for is dangerous operation of a motor vehicle... I suppose if you are not doing anything stupid you couldn't be classified for that. I was just thinking if I fixed something could I go around the neighborhood to test it ? Or possibly take my son out on his 50cc around the neighborhood ...

based on your article the only thing i need to find out is if the builder had asked that the road be covered by the HTA regulation or not.




quotes from your article :

"Ontario is an exception – its Highway Traffic Act (HTA) doesn't apply at all on shopping centre parking lots because they're considered private property.

“In Ontario, traffic signs and speed limits in parking lots aren't enforceable,” says Terry L. Fox, manager of the legal advisory department for the Canadian Automobile Association (CAA) of South Central Ontario. “You have to be on a highway, and any public road is considered a highway.”

“Not that we'd advise anybody to speed or talk on their cell phones in a parking lot. But, no, the rules of the road don't apply.”

Because Ontario parking lots aren’t considered roads, you can operate a vehicle in them without a driver's license, vehicle registration or insurance – although you'd need to take a public road to get to a parking lot in the first place.

“That one always surprises people,” Fox says.

That doesn't mean drivers can do whatever they want in the Wild West style lawlessness of a Mississauga parking lot.

“You would be charged under the Criminal Code for dangerous operation of a motor vehicle,” Fox says. That's a federal offence and applies everywhere in Canada. Accidents in Ontario have to be reported to police if damage is over $1,000 or if there has been an injury.

Some large shopping centres have made arrangements with their local governments so that the municipality classifies the shopping centre's main roads as a highway, in order for them to be covered by the HTA, and speed limits and road signs can be enforced, says Ontario's Ministry of Transportation.

Even when the rules of the road don't legally apply, drivers should still be following them in parking lots, says Bobbie Turcotte, manager of CAA driver training."
 
See with the builder if they applied, but if they did, then it would be the city that would do snow removal, etc on the main roadway.

Anywhoo, I've found from Condo ownership, that just about every freakin detail is outlined in the "Laws" that govern the Condo Corp. I'd read those and see what they say about use of roadways/parking spaces/fire routes etc.

It's a grey area for sure, and honestly, if you're not being a mouche donkey about riding around in the area, no one will bat an eye. (Solution invite all of your neighbours for a BBQ and extend a kind gesture. Bam! Oil changes done in your driveway without question).
 
nfq said:
I mean, they can ticket you for no plates even if you're on private property.
Click to expand...

No plate on private property; no HTA offence. Plate not authorized "on or near a highway" and you're open to an HTA offence, that would include a parking lot.
 
nfq said:
See with the builder if they applied, but if they did, then it would be the city that would do snow removal, etc on the main roadway.

Anywhoo, I've found from Condo ownership, that just about every freakin detail is outlined in the "Laws" that govern the Condo Corp. I'd read those and see what they say about use of roadways/parking spaces/fire routes etc.

It's a grey area for sure, and honestly, if you're not being a mouche donkey about riding around in the area, no one will bat an eye. (Solution invite all of your neighbours for a BBQ and extend a kind gesture. Bam! Oil changes done in your driveway without question).
Click to expand...

some dude in lot # 165 WHO YOU DID NOT INVITE TO YOUR BBQ will just complain to the board...

..and it takes a lot of "dough" to extend a "kind gesture" to the board!
 
Condo roads like that do not fall under the HTA. It would make life easier if they did.
 
One would have to clarify if they owned 1/80th of the property or 1/80th of the corporation that owns the property. Under the Ontario Insurance regs you need insurance to operate a motor vehicle on private property unless you own the property.
Try getting insurance for an unregistered bike.
Forum Sponsor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom