Is it necessary to get a 400cc motorcycle with abs? | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Is it necessary to get a 400cc motorcycle with abs?

Roadghost

Well-known member
To answer the OP's original post: yes, it is absolutely a good idea to get ABS if you are a new rider. I don't have it on any of my bikes. Never gone down because I don't have it. The idea of ending up half-way into an intersection because ABS kicked in doesn't appeal to me. But I'm sure that once you have ABS and you know your bike it is an asset. I'm pretty old-school and I expect certain things from my bike. I expect it to lock up. I want it to lock up sometimes. That's a tool in my accident avoidance arsenal. However, a new rider who has no dirt bike experience isn't going to have those skills. ABS is the way.
 

Trials

Well-known member
To answer the OP's original post: yes, it is absolutely a good idea to get ABS if you are a new rider. I don't have it on any of my bikes. Never gone down because I don't have it. The idea of ending up half-way into an intersection because ABS kicked in doesn't appeal to me. But I'm sure that once you have ABS and you know your bike it is an asset. I'm pretty old-school and I expect certain things from my bike. I expect it to lock up. I want it to lock up sometimes. That's a tool in my accident avoidance arsenal. However, a new rider who has no dirt bike experience isn't going to have those skills. ABS is the way.
My take away from that is to start with dirt bike experience (y)
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
The idea of ending up half-way into an intersection because ABS kicked in doesn't appeal to me.
If this happens you shouldn't be blaming the ABS.
 

jemlinus

Well-known member
To answer the OP's original post: yes, it is absolutely a good idea to get ABS if you are a new rider. I don't have it on any of my bikes. Never gone down because I don't have it. The idea of ending up half-way into an intersection because ABS kicked in doesn't appeal to me. But I'm sure that once you have ABS and you know your bike it is an asset. I'm pretty old-school and I expect certain things from my bike. I expect it to lock up. I want it to lock up sometimes. That's a tool in my accident avoidance arsenal. However, a new rider who has no dirt bike experience isn't going to have those skills. ABS is the way.
What? Do you think ABS makes the bike to have longer stopping distance? I don't think you understand what ABS system does.
 

Blackfin

Well-known member
Site Supporter
There's a reason ABS is mandated in some parts of the world for new machines. It works, plain and simple. Some old schoolers will balk but ignore their opinion: You can't argue the statistics.

The condition of public roads (unlike, say, racetracks) are simply too unpredictable, riding conditions too variable and the margins of safety too low for motorcycles to not want ABS.

Going to track day? They want you to remove the glycol from your cooling system because a crash may spill slippery goo on the track causing others to crash. But on the street there are no such safeguards: I see evidence of liquid spills everywhere; that dark kilometer-long spill might have been from a broken rad hose or hydraulic hose, or garbage truck juice, or even leaking fluids from an offal hauler, or maybe dad forgot to torque his oil pan drain plug. Whatever the cause you can come across this stuff at any time on any road.

Traction is variable. Wet leaves or grass clippings. Cool asphalt and cold tires on a crisp fall morning. Less than ideal tire condition or wear-smoothed asphalt or concrete. Or wet painted-lines in the road. To have a mechanism that helps prevent locking a tire during braking seems like a no-brainer for a street-driven motorcycle.

A very good rider may be able to outbrake ABS at threshold braking under specific conditions but I doubt he'd be better than ABS under all possible road conditions.
 

MacDoc

Well-known member
Site Supporter
A very good rider may be able to outbrake ABS at threshold braking under specific conditions
far more myth than reality - these guys are pro and Honda's C-ABS is straight off the race track
Best braking system I've ever had.


tho it's a different situation in the dirt. There certainly is a case to be able to turn it off tho i admit it was unnerving pointing a BMW 800 straight down hill in the sand with the front brake full on....damn thing walked straight down perfectly.....I gave the demo guy a look when he suggested it. :rolleyes:
 

blackcamaro

Well-known member
I’m kind of with you @Roadghost , it depends on the bike a little for me though. I’m always good with the front ABS regardless of what I’m riding but like I mentioned earlier I would really rather the rear to be turned off it chosen.

I feel stronger about this on cruisers where the rear brake comes into play more so then other bikes. Coming to a stop and there broken or rough pavement, yeah ABS is kicking in way too much and I have come close to blowing into intersections. Not a comfortable feeling. Same with slick surfaces or rain. Given the choice I’ll take the ability to lock up the rear everytime. Again I like ABS in the front and with the tire getting loaded up under braking it doesn’t kick in nearly as often.

Sport bikes, supermoto and naked’s I rarely ever use the rear so I couldn’t care with those bikes. I also do not think I could stop one of those bikes quicker without ABS then with it.

I ride my dirt bike more often then street though so my comfort level with a sliding or somewhat out of control motorcycle is pretty high.
 

Roadghost

Well-known member
What? Do you think ABS makes the bike to have longer stopping distance? I don't think you understand what ABS system does.
Yeah, so at last look, this was my understanding of the marketing science behind ABS: Initially claims were made by manufacturers that ABS decreased stopping distance. That was later undone by studies that showed it in fact didn't decrease stopping distances:


Scroll down to reference #26 in the Wiki link for the PDF on the NHTSA study.


While you remain in better control of the vehicle, you won't stop faster. My experience with all the ABS systems on all the vehicles I have owned is that it does not decrease stopping distances, and in most instances it increases it. Now, there are those who will argue until they're blue about this, but it's my experience and that of the NHTSA at last glance.
 
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MacDoc

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Ummmm from your own report and what I said earlier ....it's only on dirt or similar surfaces it might increase stopping distance.

Although ABS generally offers improved vehicle control and decreases stopping distances on dry and some slippery surfaces, on loose gravel or snow-covered surfaces ABS may significantly increase braking distance, while still improving steering control.[2][3][4] Since ABS was introduced in production vehicles, such systems have become increasingly sophisticated and effective. Modern versions may not only prevent wheel lock under braking, but may also alter the front-to-rear brake bias. This latter function, depending on its specific capabilities and implementation, is known variously as electronic brakeforce distribution, traction control system, emergency brake assist, or electronic stability control (ESC).
I'll take the steering control over spinning down the highway in a car and no matter what bike you have most of the braking in a panic situation is strongly based on the front wheel .
The Honda C-ABS configures the braking automaticially between front ahd rear.

There is NO reason not to get ABS unless most riding is off pavement and even there ....ABS has advantages at times tho not always so it would be nice if ADV bikes...or at least serious ones had a switch...some do.

If your ABS is kicking in you need to question your distances from the vehicle ahead. Personally it is VERY rare for the ABS to activate.
 

Baggsy

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Yeah, so at last look, this was my understanding of the marketing science behind ABS: Initially claims were made by manufacturers that ABS decreased stopping distance. That was later undone by studies that showed it in fact didn't decrease stopping distances:


Scroll down to reference #26 in the Wiki link for the PDF on the NHTSA study.


While you remain in better control of the vehicle, you won't stop faster. My experience with all the ABS systems on all the vehicles I have owned is that it does not decrease stopping distances, and in most instances it increases it. Now, there are those who will argue until they're blue about this, but it's my experience and that of the NHTSA at last glance.
Glance again: "However, with both brakes applied, ABS stops were more repeatable and shorter than non-ABS stops"
Reference: NHTSA Motorycle Rider Braking

p.s. This is a really old study.
 

MacDoc

Well-known member
Site Supporter
A 2015 report by the Monash University Accident Research Centre evaluated the effectiveness of ABS on motorcycle safety in Australia.

The report found that the inclusion of ABS as a standard safety feature on motorcycles could result in a 31% reduction in death and severe injury in a crash.

From November 2019, a new Australian Design Rule requires all new motorcycles sold in Australia to be fitted with an advanced braking system.

The Federal Government anticipates that over a 15-year period, advanced braking systems, such as ABS or Combined Braking System (CBS), would save the lives of around 600 motorcyclists, as well as produce a net benefit of over $1.6 billion to the Australian community.

The video is kinda fun.

and

More than ten years ago, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) conducted a blind test to see what benefits anti-lock braking systems (ABS) had on motorcycle safety. The results were clear and impressive. IIHS found that models with optional ABS were 31% less likely than the exact same models not equipped with the technology to be involved in a fatal crash. Reports in 2008 and 2010 by IIHS were published and sent to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). No new ABS rules were implemented. In 2013, with more data having been accumulated that showed ABS and combined braking had an approximately 33% reduction in accidents, IIHS formally petitioned NHTSA. No new rules were adopted.
 

Wingboy

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
So the concern in this thread is rider safety.The biggest cause of biker mortality is left turning cages.Most riders would be lucky to get a finger on the brake lever when that cage turns in front of them.That is why the impact is usually front fender or windshield.
How do you avoid this? Conspicuity and tuned reflexes.
ABS will do nice things to prevent you from lowsiding in some debris.It will do diddly squat to help you from not hearing the song of the sausage creature as you fly over that soccer team in the minivan.
 

Trials

Well-known member
So your ABS has done all it could do to slow you down, but that darn step ladder or curb or cement block or whatever is still too close,
what are you going to do?
 

Trials

Well-known member
Oh and the car behind you :devilish: not likely going to stop all that fast or at all, until they hit something.
 

Wingboy

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
The insurance companies and their lawyers will eventually make it impossible to enjoy riding and driving.That is why the technology is becoming mandatory for manufacturers to equip vehicles with abs,lane alert,back up cam etc etc.There won't be any skill left.Just higher premiums.
 

Trials

Well-known member
Sand on the tight blind corner ahead and you know darn well your bike is about to slide sideways some, what are you going to do, freak out and panic brake!
or meh, just keep riding, stay off the brakes like you were going to do in the first place, let is slide sideways some, no big deal.


btw: They just reverted 4 kilometres of the Arden Tamworth road back to gravel, so some of you might not want to ride that road for a while.
 

Blackfin

Well-known member
Site Supporter
So the concern in this thread is rider safety.The biggest cause of biker mortality is left turning cages.Most riders would be lucky to get a finger on the brake lever when that cage turns in front of them.That is why the impact is usually front fender or windshield.
How do you avoid this? Conspicuity and tuned reflexes.
ABS will do nice things to prevent you from lowsiding in some debris.It will do diddly squat to help you from not hearing the song of the sausage creature as you fly over that soccer team in the minivan.
The issue bolded above...I dunno. Riding sensibly and being able to dynamically assess risks and hazards as they form and acting ahead of time -- planning escape lines, slowing down, covering brakes, SMIDSY weave and/or high-beam flashing, flashing brake lights to alert drivers behind you're slowing etc -- are skills that I think could help reduce the incidences of left-turn collisions. Having a car turn left and not even making it to the brake suggests the rider didn't recognize the threat forming, wasn't paying attention, was going too fast or any combination of the above.

None of this abrogates the value of ABS. Motorcycle safety is an eco-system comprised of many things (skill, judgement, equipment etc.) A weakness in any of this eco-system's constituent parta will increase your increased risk.
 

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