Is HTA 172 really THAT unsuccessful?

[dankyyz]

Thanks for the props chick. I think you, and several others like you on this site, would benefit from being a victim of ANY of the "injustices" we should "remain vigilant" about. MOST of the " so i'm minding my own business....and this cop comes up to me..." stories are TOTAL BS. Made up so people can "fit into" the "culture" you ferment.

But dont worry. It's not just HERE. Most message boards have the very same dynamic going on. It's the kids wanting to "fit in". Been happening for years.

My observations on dankyyz is that he likes to complain about people complaining about the way the government is dismantling our rights and freedoms one by one. I think he would benefit from being a victim of a corrupt cop (though it comes to mind that he might convince himself that the cop was right).

 

[promac]

Circular argument....before HTA172 how many people gave a rats *** about going 50 over? Hindsight is always 20:20 but in this case it seems to win out again.

I did - pre-HTA 172, the penalties were still pretty severe. However, the difference today seems to be tolerance - 0 and enforcement, whereas before, an officer might sympathize given the severity of the situation, give you a break and issue you a 49kph over citation - imagine that! Then there are those who don't give a rats *** about HTA 172 - you hear about it every once in a while, someone cruising along the highway at 200kph or more who may also try to evade police. A year ago, I saw a sport bike pass me on the 407 like I was standing still - on it's back wheel. A few weeks ago, I watched a small wolf pack doing wheelies and burnouts. Last week I saw two Ferrari's racing south bound on the 427 by the airport. I just don't see the fear of HTA 172. Perhaps they didn't get the memo.

 

[dankyyz]

It is a perfectly rational and likely situation for some squid to find themselves in. The left turn in front of the bike happens ALL THE TIME. How someone as obviously worldly as yourself has missed it is beyond me.

Don't be ridiculous, with examples like that .....

What happened to the left turner's ability to read that the opposing vehicle is obviously traveling much faster then thought and thus is not safe to make such a left turn. If you cannot do that much (difference between 50 and 100), you should not be on the road. But I have never seen accident (or heard of) like that, it's usually a red line runner, but not because a speed differential. Try a different example, because this one is not very good one .... ;-)

"C" for your effort son ....

Again, don't read into it, like you many times do, that I agree with people doing 100 in 50 zone. Obviously most people here don't. I just very much doubt that there's a link between 50 over and number of accidents .....

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Not just you Rob. But your moderation "style" does not allow anything but the most antiseptic rebuttal on anything you feel "just". Paul supports it.

The motorcycling "newcommers" on this site are being fed the wrong ideas about how to view motorcycling, so some (you included) can stump your personal gripes.

Calling people out on issues to which mods on this site have personal agendas does not work. Suggesting that people actually own up to their mistakes (real or imagined) is NOT approved of here. So mentor-ship is not likely to ever happen.

As I said before, show me where.

And I thought that you said you weren't coming back to my "sandbox", as you put it?

I also note the lack of comment on "mentorship."

 

[Yukoner]

My biggest concern is the disproportionate nature of the penalties -- I suspect it increases the likelihood that someone will run (esp. younger riders) -- and doing so at those speeds -- YIKES. There is merit in having a line in the sand -- but speeding should not be a capital offence!

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Note to dank (now that I see a quoted post).. Even those of us who call for police accountability and a break in the overcriminalization trend get hit with warnings and infractions. I've received a couple from Rob in my days (one of them being yesterday), so it's not like the totalitarian crowd is getting singled out. Paul wants as little static as possible here, so he instructed the admin staff to be proactive in keeping the discussions as civil as possible. Sometimes a bit too civil for my tastes, but I'm not holding any ill will toward Rob.. He gets his guidelines and has to act within them

 

[Tornique]

Meh, I think this pole is flawed. Deterrance is definately in effect with HTA 172. But the same could be said about applying the death penalty to HTA 172 violators lol. The fact that something works doesn't mean its just.

The way i see it, Speed is an addiction. Those who need there fix will do it despite HTA 172. So this law really only deters those people who are on the fence and may speed occasionally.

EDIT: When I say speed I really should refer to the "Thrill"

 

[dankyyz]

This is BY FAR the most moderated forum on the site. And such moderation leans towards the "entitled" almost without exception.

Rob...the moderation issue was addressed. I just chose not to reply to YOUR wax-off approach to the subject.

Glad to hear even the "entitled" get slapped around here.

Note to dank (now that I see a quoted post).. Even those of us who call for police accountability and a break in the overcriminalization trend get hit with warnings and infractions. I've received a couple from Rob in my days (one of them being yesterday), so it's not like the totalitarian crowd is getting singled out. Paul wants as little static as possible here, so he instructed the admin staff to be proactive in keeping the discussions as civil as possible. Sometimes a bit too civil for my tastes, but I'm not holding any ill will toward Rob.. He gets his guidelines and has to act within them

 

[Rob MacLennan]

This is BY FAR the most moderated forum on the site. And such moderation leans towards the "entitled" almost without exception.

Rob...the moderation issue was addressed. I just chose not to reply to YOUR wax-off approach to the subject.

Glad to hear even the "entitled" get slapped around here.

I mentioned nothing about 'moderation.' You did. I asked you to show me where I've "defended the rights of riders to do what they want" but you can't, because I don't.

You also said nothing about doing what you're always pushing me to do; act as a mentor. I suppose that making snide remarks is far easier than providing something VALUABLE.

 

[caboose56]

..and providing an example where it is harmless isn't a valid one either. I agree with you, if you can't drive in a straight line on a straight road you have no business driving, whatever the speed is within reason but reason is the key here isn't it.

When I look at my speedo I'm doing roughly the national speedlimit of my home country the UK and I've never been hassled for doing that on Canadian roads....I find that's perfectly fair to be honest and I think most people are fine with that.

What I can't understand are the arguments that better drivers should be able to go faster on our roads....that's nuts, everyone thinks they are the best driver in the world don't they? Back to square one unless we get european style driving tests with 40-50% failure rates for unsafe drivers.

It is perfectly valid.

 

[sizemik_p]

Yeah, I've always been baffled by how easy it is to get a license in Canada/US. It has to do with money - less licensed operators=less potential costumers for vehicle manufacturers, and these guys have serious pull in governments.

The best way to improve everything about 'the road' in Canada would be to make testing SERIOUS; as mentioned above. Go get a license in Germany and see. I went through the licensing process in Brazil (yes, my banana republic homeland) and was surprised by how much more serious the process is. Psych evaluations, medical exam (not just the little eye-test) and a hairy bastard of a road test.

Also, licenses to 16 year olds? BAD idea. Period. (as much as I liked having my full license when I was that age.) Should be at least 18 or even older. What do these kids need cars for? They live at home and have legs. But I digress, I just want licenses to be harder to get.

Whatever, enjoy things NOW. I wouldn't be surprised if SSs get banned within 10-15 years the way things are going.

 

[Shaman]

Hypothetically, it now means some riders will roll 170+ instead of the 120 they used to ride and not get a second look, since the cops are now like rabid dogs when it comes to picking up ticket revenue. Either way you're going to get the cops on your case, but if you're rolling 170+ when you meet, that makes the trip to 270+ a lot shorter.

 

[dankyyz]

Finally you go on record to say that you consider your job to be assessing the VALUE of postings and edit/delete them as you see fit.

Nice work.

I mentioned nothing about 'moderation.' You did. I asked you to show me where I've "defended the rights of riders to do what they want" but you can't, because I don't.

You also said nothing about doing what you're always pushing me to do; act as a mentor. I suppose that making snide remarks is far easier than providing something VALUABLE.

 

[knowledge]

Guys, please don't get this sent to trash. That includes you, dank!

I'd like to be able to read this in the next couple of days when I can find the time :confused1:

 

[CruisnGrrl]

Thanks for the props chick. I think you, and several others like you on this site, would benefit from being a victim of ANY of the "injustices" we should "remain vigilant" about. MOST of the " so i'm minding my own business....and this cop comes up to me..." stories are TOTAL BS. Made up so people can "fit into" the "culture" you ferment.

But dont worry. It's not just HERE. Most message boards have the very same dynamic going on. It's the kids wanting to "fit in". Been happening for years.

I have had a cop try the stunting charge on me, fortunately i had proof otherwise and ended up with a baseless 15 over ticket instead that i challenged and have yet to go to court for almost 2 years later... in an area where 4 months is the wait time for a ticket to go to court. you act like there are no corrupt cops and the police are perfect even when evidence showing otherwise comes to light. and even then you have shown in the past that you think we should be lenient on those officers that break the law they should be enforcing. you want police harassment? for a couple weeks after that 15 over ticket i found my self being followed by cop cars on portions of my rides when one would spot me. others have reported being harassed after being tagged for stunting whether they were convicted or not.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Finally you go on record to say that you consider your job to be assessing the VALUE of postings and edit/delete them as you see fit.

Nice work.

Why yes, yes it is. Off topic posts, name calling, and general abuse have no VALUE and, therefore, have no place here. I'm tasked with assessing the VALUE of posts, on a daily basis. There are many members here whose stance I disagree with, but who provide VALUE in their posts on a daily basis. Their posts remain. Yours do not. No one needs to speculate as to why that is, as chiding and passive-aggressive sniping provide zero VALUE.

Apparently I am capable of directly responding to a comment. You, it seems, are not. You still have not replied to my queries regarding why you so adamantly state that I should do something that you, yourself, seem to have no desire to do. You have failed to demonstrate that I am guilty, of what you accuse me of, despite being given several opportunities to do so. For those reasons, and what I have stated above, this is now over.

 

[jc100]

It is perfectly valid.

OK..as valid as mine without providing justification.

 

[jc100]

I did - pre-HTA 172, the penalties were still pretty severe. However, the difference today seems to be tolerance - 0 and enforcement, whereas before, an officer might sympathize given the severity of the situation, give you a break and issue you a 49kph over citation - imagine that! Then there are those who don't give a rats *** about HTA 172 - you hear about it every once in a while, someone cruising along the highway at 200kph or more who may also try to evade police. A year ago, I saw a sport bike pass me on the 407 like I was standing still - on it's back wheel. A few weeks ago, I watched a small wolf pack doing wheelies and burnouts. Last week I saw two Ferrari's racing south bound on the 427 by the airport. I just don't see the fear of HTA 172. Perhaps they didn't get the memo.

Maybe your observations are an indication of things not working. Mine are that things have calmed down a bit since I started driving here 15 years ago. There's certainly way less in the way of knobs speeding along at warp speed weaving between traffic than there used to be. I still see the odd one, but really not that many.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Maybe your observations are an indication of things not working. Mine are that things have calmed down a bit since I started driving here 15 years ago. There's certainly way less in the way of knobs speeding along at warp speed weaving between traffic than there used to be. I still see the odd one, but really not that many.

Really? I see more, not less. They're just doing it through twice as much traffic, that's moving half as fast as it did 15 years ago. I say that, knowing full well that my commute has gone from 45 minutes, when I started working in downtown Toronto almost 14 years ago, to an hour and a quarter.

 

[viper84737]

Really? I see more, not less. They're just doing it through twice as much traffic, that's moving half as fast as it did 15 years ago. I say that, knowing full well that my commute has gone from 45 minutes, when I started working in downtown Toronto almost 14 years ago, to an hour and a quarter.

You can probably blame that more on an increase in population, or an increase of people living in suburbia and working downtown, than anything else.