Inverters !

crankcall

crankcall

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I think we had this discussion before and I know we have some RV ers here . I need to add an inverter , a gen set makes no sense in my boat project . I need to power twelve hundred watts once a day for twenty mins ( coffee machine) . So I guess that means a two thousand watts inverter.
My second question , I will occasionally run a lap top so is a pure sine wave a gotta have or does a modified sine wave do the job. The coffee maker may be more important than my work computer but both wound be nice.
Thoughts ?


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Coffee maker probably won't care about the sine wave at all if it's a really dumb old school model with just an on/off switch, any resistive type loads like that couldn't care less about sine. If it's a fancier one with a LCD display and such, all bets are off though.

Laptop charger won't typically care either but they generally build a lot more heat on a square sine.

In the end, it's worth it to just spend the extra money up front to get a pure sine honestly - you will be happier in the long run, and if you ever want or need to run anything that requires it (which, increasingly, is a lot of stuff), you'll never regret the decision. A microwave is a good example of something that at best runs like dogshit on a square sine, and won't run at all (or will fry) at worst.

Make sure to check the constant vs surge outputs. A lot of off brand inverters (ie, Amazon etc) are a bit misleading in that they might advertise "1500 watts", but they're only rated for 1000 with a 1500w output for 30 or 60 seconds.

I'd go with something that can do 2000w continuous as then you've future proofed yourself - that'll feed anything that you can plug into a regular household socket indefinitely.

The other big question is what do you plan to use for a battery bank for the inverter? Lead acid is cheap, but LifePo4 is vastly superior in almost every way, but does add charging complexity vs "just hook it to the alternator" simplicity of lead acid. But a 20 minute coffee machine cycle will really hammer even a few lead acid batteries, but a decent sized LifePo4 bank will laugh at it lol.
 
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Thank you , that pretty much sums up what I suspected. I understand anything that produces heat ( nespresso machine) eats battery . The battery bank will unfortunately be lead acid , I have an onboard charger but it’s too old to manage lithium batteries . This thing will charge a couple phones and make coffee once a morning for three days . I can run the diesel engine to recharge the batteries if needed .
Throwing a pair of lithium batteries in and changing the charger to do lead acid starter battery and lithium as “house batteries “ then the two thousand watt inverter and I’m making a three hundred dollar coffee three times a summer.
Thanks for the advice .


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I would need fire (which I hate on board) or power an induction stove , which all research indictes eats a ton of juice. The Nesspresso mini is my go to when travelling. Aluminum pods dont get damp and last months in the heat. Wifey can have flavoured crap without contaminating real coffee and George Clooney cant be wrong.
 
crankcall said:
I would need fire (which I hate on board) or power an induction stove , which all research indictes eats a ton of juice. The Nesspresso mini is my go to when travelling. Aluminum pods dont get damp and last months in the heat. Wifey can have flavoured crap without contaminating real coffee and George Clooney cant be wrong.
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I haven't seen one of those that would work with an induction stove. That brings you back to fire or resistance heat. I'd stick with the nespresso for all the reasons you listed.

As for the power usage, it's easy to test with something like a kill-a-watt and get a real kwh required. Even though the coffee maker can pull 1200 watts and is on for 20 minutes, I suspect you'll find something like 1200 watt pull for five minutes to heat up and then an additional two minute per cup. In between heat cycles, it will be pulling very little.
 
We have a small single-serve size K-Cup machine in our camper. The cycle takes about 3-4 minutes, of which about 75% is the heating cycle. When I look at my BMS app the LifePo4 battery is seeing about a 130 amp draw from the inverter during this cycle. But with 280ah in that bank, we're talking literally single percentages of battery consumption per cycle. When we went camping in upstate NY a few years ago at a totally off grid state park we ran the camper 100% on that battery for 5 days, 3-4 cups of coffee each morning, toaster, running a big string of lights of 2-3 hours each night, charging both of our laptops multiple times per day, iphones, water pump and lights in the trailer, etc etc etc. LiFePo4 is amazing.

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My single serve nespresso machine claims twelve hundred watts on the label , that and charging cell phones are all I need AC power for , and i could get around the phones . To upgrade the onboard charger to three battery capacity and then add a lithium battery is getting spendy . All fun stuff is .


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crankcall said:
My single serve nespresso machine claims twelve hundred watts on the label , that and charging cell phones are all I need AC power for , and i could get around the phones . To upgrade the onboard charger to three battery capacity and then add a lithium battery is getting spendy . All fun stuff is .


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There are some very easy workarounds for that what I've done is a DC/DC charger off the first bank to charge my lithium bank The DC charger detects voltage and only turns on when the first bank is being charged and charges the second one lithium batteries are pretty inexpensive now too

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Scuba Steve said:
There are some very easy workarounds for that what I've done is a DC/DC charger off the first bank to charge my lithium bank The DC charger detects voltage and only turns on when the first bank is being charged and charges the second one lithium batteries are pretty inexpensive now too

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Upside to that is you don't need to worry about the boat not starting as too much coffee just kills the lithium and leaves the starting battery full.
 
A Dc2Dc unit is best connected straight to the alternator in this situation – lithium batteries need higher charging voltages so hooking directly at the alternator will ensure the DC to DC receives maximum potential voltage, as opposed to a potentially sagged voltage at an existing lead acid battery which may also perhaps drawing a lot of amps therefore reducing voltage at its leads from the alternator.

In a perfect world. Your solution works as well, it may just result in a slower charge. 😉
 
PrivatePilot said:
A Dc2Dc unit is best connected straight to the alternator in this situation – lithium batteries need higher charging voltages so hooking directly at the alternator will ensure the DC to DC receives maximum potential voltage, as opposed to a potentially sagged voltage at an existing lead acid battery which may also perhaps drawing a lot of amps therefore reducing voltage at its leads from the alternator.

In a perfect world. Your solution works as well, it may just result in a slower charge.
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The nice thing about the way I did it is that it also charges from my solar or when plugged into shore power because the DCDC charger detects the increase in voltage

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Don’t attack me but….freeze dried coffee has gotten way way better over the years. It used to be godawful disgusting crap. Now it’s actually drinkable if you choose the gourmet stuff. I recently bought some off amazon and I’m pleasantly surprised. I got individually sealed pouches so I can take a few on my bike and perhaps pack a small camp stove for hot water.
 
JC99 said:
Don’t attack me but….freeze dried coffee has gotten way way better over the years. It used to be godawful disgusting crap. Now it’s actually drinkable if you choose the gourmet stuff. I recently bought some off amazon and I’m pleasantly surprised. I got individually sealed pouches so I can take a few on my bike and perhaps pack a small camp stove for hot water.
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Assuming he wants it warm, the heating water is the energy intensive part. Once you have hot water, the difference between aeropress/freeze dried/nespresso barely matters for energy usage.
 
GreyGhost said:
Assuming he wants it warm, the heating water is the energy intensive part. Once you have hot water, the difference between aeropress/freeze dried/nespresso barely matters for energy usage.
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Exactly I use the microwave and instant coffee when we are camping just for space.

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Ive been trying to use stuff we already own , mini nesspresso, 1000w inverter and a lead acid battery . But the nesspresso wants 1200W , and I could get a 600/800w mini microwave for free which allows my xantrex 1000w to work. Hot water in a micro and instant coffee would get the job done. We do have a propane stove option but I hate the heat it creates in a small space. If the sq wave inverter blows up the micro its a $5 problem , the inverter has a digital display so it should make the one on the micro work.
I'm working on simple/cheap/reliable , all of which cost various amounts of money .
 
crankcall said:
Ive been trying to use stuff we already own , mini nesspresso, 1000w inverter and a lead acid battery . But the nesspresso wants 1200W , and I could get a 600/800w mini microwave for free which allows my xantrex 1000w to work. Hot water in a micro and instant coffee would get the job done. We do have a propane stove option but I hate the heat it creates in a small space. If the sq wave inverter blows up the micro its a $5 problem , the inverter has a digital display so it should make the one on the micro work.
I'm working on simple/cheap/reliable , all of which cost various amounts of money .
Click to expand...
A lithium battery pure sign inverter and DCDC charger can be done under $1,000 but that's way over your budget of zero. How are microwaves sounded like crap but worked okay on the square wave inverter. I change to a pure sign one and it sounds much better now.

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crankcall said:
Ive been trying to use stuff we already own , mini nesspresso, 1000w inverter and a lead acid battery . But the nesspresso wants 1200W , and I could get a 600/800w mini microwave for free which allows my xantrex 1000w to work. Hot water in a micro and instant coffee would get the job done. We do have a propane stove option but I hate the heat it creates in a small space. If the sq wave inverter blows up the micro its a $5 problem , the inverter has a digital display so it should make the one on the micro work.
I'm working on simple/cheap/reliable , all of which cost various amounts of money .
Click to expand...
Have you tried plugging the Nespresso into the inverter you have just see what happens that would be my first step

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I’ll try the coffee machine with the current inverter and see the result . Failing that I’ve found a Renology inverter / charger with pure sign wave for five hundred eighty nine , add two hundred amp Lithium batteries and I’m at a little over a grand and I can run a barista service with that mess .
As always thanks for the advice gents .


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