How many crashes before Sunday evening? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

How many crashes before Sunday evening?

Forum Sponsor
TK4 said:
Turn the 407 into a pay-as-you-play speedway. BIG tolls, everyone knows. It's not being used by anyone anyway ?
Click to expand...
Average speed calcs on 407 are trivial. Long ago the invoices showed you entry and exit times and mile markers. If they wanted to control speeding, that is the easiest road by miles. They do not want to control speeding.

Now, to your point, 407 could change the rate based on how fast you are going. Travel at the speed limit, pay the posted rate. Travel at double the posted limit, pay 4x the rate. Lots of people would happily pay and that compensates 407 for increased wear and closures for crashes caused by those with more wallet than talent.
 
Younge fools make such great organ donors and us old people need more of them.
 
GreyGhost said:
Average speed calcs on 407 are trivial. Long ago the invoices showed you entry and exit times and mile markers. If they wanted to control speeding, that is the easiest road by miles. They do not want to control speeding.

Now, to your point, 407 could change the rate based on how fast you are going. Travel at the speed limit, pay the posted rate. Travel at double the posted limit, pay 4x the rate. Lots of people would happily pay and that compensates 407 for increased wear and closures for crashes caused by those with more wallet than talent.
Click to expand...
There are parts of Europe that do this in the cities and possibly highways.
Entry and exit time.
One of the easiest ways to control speeding.
Speed cameras are avoidable if you know where they are.

But if there is a stretch of road that you must take and no way around it, you will be forced to drive the speed limit.
 
danp said:
The stats show older people have the most motorcycle fatalities. It surprised me too but those are the facts. The idea that it's young inexperienced hooligans doing most of the crashing is just a myth.
Click to expand...
Number of crashes and number of deaths are not necessarily directly correlated. You need to compare death rate or crash rate across the groups.
 
You have to define young. To me that is anybody under 60.
Motorcycling is a young mans dream that quickly fades.
 
oioioi said:
There are parts of Europe that do this in the cities and possibly highways.
Entry and exit time.
One of the easiest ways to control speeding.
Speed cameras are avoidable if you know where they are.

But if there is a stretch of road that you must take and no way around it, you will be forced to drive the speed limit.
Click to expand...
You rip it at the start of the control zone, and then stop for a few min before you hit the exit gate cameras…average speed is done…actual speed is up.

I personally don’t believe speeding is caused by much rush…but simple ‘I want to’ mentality.
 
TK4 said:
urn the 407 into a pay-as-you-play speedway.
Click to expand...

It kinda already is. And at one point years ago the OPP was actually all over the 407 like white on rice. No idea about anymore, but if you look a lot of the overpasses even have a special spot for them to shoot radar from.

I found it ironic that they could sit all over the 407 to write tickets but the regular highways were just left to go nuts.

danp said:
The stats show older people have the most motorcycle fatalities. It surprised me too but those are the facts. The idea that it's young inexperienced hooligans doing most of the crashing is just a myth.
Click to expand...

Look at the raw numbers of old farts on cruisers vs hooligans on sport bikes.
.
And a lot of those guys on cruisers ride a LOT, like 20-30-50+K/year, whereas the average sportbike hooligan might ride 1000km in an entire season - many way less than that.

Moral of the story is that the "older people have the most fatalities" is statistically inevitable, but highly misleading.

But put the same number of hooligans on sportbikes riding the same amount of kilometers every year as the older guys on cruisers/goldwings/whatever and that whole argument falls to pieces - it would be a hooligan sportbike bloodbath on the roads every day of the week.
 
PrivatePilot said:
It kinda already is. And at one point years ago the OPP was actually all over the 407 like white on rice. No idea about anymore, but if you look a lot of the overpasses even have a special spot for them to shoot radar from.

I found it ironic that they could sit all over the 407 to write tickets but the regular highways were just left to go nuts.



Look at the raw numbers of old farts on cruisers vs hooligans on sport bikes.
.
And a lot of those guys on cruisers ride a LOT, like 20-30-50+K/year, whereas the average sportbike hooligan might ride 1000km in an entire season - many way less than that.

Moral of the story is that the "older people have the most fatalities" is statistically inevitable, but highly misleading.

But put the same number of hooligans on sportbikes riding the same amount of kilometers every year as the older guys on cruisers/goldwings/whatever and that whole argument falls to pieces - it would be a hooligan sportbike bloodbath on the roads every day of the week.
Click to expand...
Cool story bro. I ride sport bikes I own 3 at the moment 1 with 387,000kms, 1 with 98,000kms, and 1 with 89,000kms.
 
Lots of idiots on the 410 yesterday. Ripping about 150-170 through traffic.

I was a little impressed as I didn’t know big cruisers with tall ape hangers were so nimble at that speed.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Look at the raw numbers of old farts on cruisers vs hooligans on sport bikes.
.
And a lot of those guys on cruisers ride a LOT, like 20-30-50+K/year, whereas the average sportbike hooligan might ride 1000km in an entire season - many way less than that.

Moral of the story is that the "older people have the most fatalities" is statistically inevitable, but highly misleading.

But put the same number of hooligans on sportbikes riding the same amount of kilometers every year as the older guys on cruisers/goldwings/whatever and that whole argument falls to pieces - it would be a hooligan sportbike bloodbath on the roads every day of the week.
Click to expand...
That's just your own speculation, based on your already biased assumptions. Do you have any sources to prove any of those claims?
 
Unfortunately a lot of stats do not record the most important statistic - regardless of age or type of motorcycle: it's *experience*.

Experience is hard to pin down, because it's not related to how many years you've had a motorcycle license, nor even how many kms you ride a year.

I've seen motorcycle commuters who put on 30,000kms a year demonstrate inferior handling skills compared to someone who rides less than 5,000 kms a year, but takes their sportbike out on the track or their dirtbike out in the forest on the weekends, pushing the limits of their motorcycle and their abilities in all the important areas of maneuverability, and traction management in acceleration and braking.

The commuter basically rides the same 1 km, 30,000 times a year and doesn't learn anything new from a skills perspective. The only experience they perhaps gain is more situational awareness in traffic, but may not have adequate mechanical skills to react to those adverse situations.

The age-related stats skews towards older riders because as PP mentioned, they are over-represented on the road, but also because many of them are just entering or re-entering motorcycling after decades of being absent from the scene (due to raising kids, career, etc).

While younger riders are forced to look at 250-500cc motorcycles because of insurance or price point, older riders with more disposable income are able to buy more bike they can handle, whether it's the shiny 700 lb bagger or 200 hp superbike.

IMO, this, coupled with *inexperience* is the reason why they are over-represented in the age-related crash statistics.

Inexperienced riders come in all ages. Unfortunately there are more older, inexperienced riders out there vs younger, inexperienced ones.
 
PrivatePilot said:
It kinda already is. And at one point years ago the OPP was actually all over the 407 like white on rice. No idea about anymore, but if you look a lot of the overpasses even have a special spot for them to shoot radar from.

I found it ironic that they could sit all over the 407 to write tickets but the regular highways were just left to go nuts.
Click to expand...
Yup - and a bunch of them were corrupt OPP collecting kickbacks from highway bandit tow truck drivers. Don't know if that still happens, but after it was exposed and a few cops prosecuted -- the OPP sure backed off the 407 patrol.

Since Friday I did about 2000km thru Ontario, didn't see a single car pulled over in 20+ hours of seat time. Traffic was flying everywhere. On 129 cars and bikes were moving at 135kmh. Same on the 144, a couple of ST groups flew by us at 180+ (best guess), and at one point near Gogama, I was following a school bus with kids plugging along 130!
PrivatePilot said:
Look at the raw numbers of old farts on cruisers vs hooligans on sport bikes.
.
And a lot of those guys on cruisers ride a LOT, like 20-30-50+K/year, whereas the average sportbike hooligan might ride 1000km in an entire season - many way less than that.

Moral of the story is that the "older people have the most fatalities" is statistically inevitable, but highly misleading.

But put the same number of hooligans on sportbikes riding the same amount of kilometers every year as the older guys on cruisers/goldwings/whatever and that whole argument falls to pieces - it would be a hooligan sportbike bloodbath on the roads every day of the week.
Click to expand...
I think you have to look deeper into the stats -- if you can even find a reliable source. While the number of fatalities is similar between millennials and older riders, millennials make up only 20% of all riders -- older generations 80%. Millennials still have more fatalities on motorcycles than all other ages combined.
 
Last edited:
I remember this being touched on in my riding course in 2019.
The majority of new riders were much older (@Evoex and the other instructors can probably chime in on what the demographics of their classes is like) and was skewing the data that way. I think it was riders over 50 made up the largest group injury.

Older riders can usually afford the bikes that younger ones can't. Having your first bike being a loaded Road Glide is probably not the best idea.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom