I am sure a meeting at the HQ has been already called for to discuss the outcome of this review .... There's so many people who do not get bike releases, whether a reviewer or an ordinary reader.
Honda NC700
- Thread starter RodneyBR
- Start date
I am sure a meeting at the HQ has been already called for to discuss the outcome of this review .... There's so many people who do not get bike releases, whether a reviewer or an ordinary reader.
Definitely. Honda's plan isn't about appealing to thrill seekers. The squids already have fast "exciting" bikes, but they're not a growing market. Honda wants new riders, returning riders, second-bike riders, commuters and a sprinkling of ex-SS and cruiser types. Not everyone has $15k to spare for a new vehicle. It's no accident there's a scooter version, adventure and street versions. Two transmission types and meaningful factory accessories aren't a fluke, either.
Insurance is part of the equation too and Honda seems to be suggesting "dull" on purpose. In theory, low COG means less tipover claims, ABS eliminates wheel lockups and adequate HP discourages aggressive riding. Anything to keep it from throwing up red flags. Good fuel economy is something sensible consumers care about. The NC700 line is fuel efficient, right?
The real balancing act will be to convince both sides that they're getting a deal. Does the design placate the insurers with safety features (and a varied, low-risk group of riders)? Does it offer enough choice, practicality AND excitement to consumers? This is where the macho marketing of the past may really bite them in the hindquarters. A sales success for Honda requires people to buy NEW machines and lots of them.
Mac Doc's personal review may be more worrisome than anything the press has published to date. I ride a Burgman myself, but don't really feel shortchanged performance-wise coming from a 600. That's a tricky needle to thread. Probably because the decent 60-100 km/h on-ramp dash, overtaking isn't cumbersome and highway cruising isn't buzzy. The "snap" isn't there, but that was really only useable on the track anyway.
If the NC700 actually offers inferior performance, convenience features and higher insurance premiums than a 12-year old Suzuki scooter design, then Honda has missed the mark and badly.
I really suspect the sweet spot for this is in the DCT and maxi-Scoot version both of which - like the Burgman and Aprilla and BMW have sport settings so the "dull" becomes fun on demand and goes back to dull for commuting and slab riding and mileage which seems a big goal of Hondas.
The Burgman I can switch into overdrive so revs drop and mileage goes well up. Getting all the bases covered on a standard transmission is simply not possible. Hence - dull.
There are too many constraints with a standard transmission, low revving motor to get much sizzle of which there should be some at least.
Gearing is way wrong for anything remotely "adventure" riding. Torque curve is very good so once moving you don't need to shift a lot which has some commuter appeal.
It handles light as the design - like the Burgman and the BMW - has the weight well down - making otherwise hefty bikes "feel" light.
With today's tech as with sports cars - a middle weight should be able to be both fun or placid on demand.
I'll let you know the minute I can get on a DCT. The Honda is a bit lighter than the Burgman and 10 more HP which should offer an advantage tho the ECVT makes the most of the limited power of the Burgman. It goes quick when asked which is the idea behind CVTs.
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Glad you are enjoying the Burgman FW - BTW the wider Clearview shields really take away some of the shoulder buffeting when on the slab and they've got cheap B grade on sale. Some as low as $88.
The Burgman I can switch into overdrive so revs drop and mileage goes well up. Getting all the bases covered on a standard transmission is simply not possible. Hence - dull.
There are too many constraints with a standard transmission, low revving motor to get much sizzle of which there should be some at least.
Gearing is way wrong for anything remotely "adventure" riding. Torque curve is very good so once moving you don't need to shift a lot which has some commuter appeal.
It handles light as the design - like the Burgman and the BMW - has the weight well down - making otherwise hefty bikes "feel" light.
With today's tech as with sports cars - a middle weight should be able to be both fun or placid on demand.
I'll let you know the minute I can get on a DCT. The Honda is a bit lighter than the Burgman and 10 more HP which should offer an advantage tho the ECVT makes the most of the limited power of the Burgman. It goes quick when asked which is the idea behind CVTs.
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Glad you are enjoying the Burgman FW - BTW the wider Clearview shields really take away some of the shoulder buffeting when on the slab and they've got cheap B grade on sale. Some as low as $88.
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The 650R is lighter, has way more HP, has nearly as much torque as a ZX6 does but several thousand RPM sooner, and people call it a girl's bike. Are you really surprised people hate on this thing with more weight, less HP, and less torque?
Unfortunately, in North America, we seem to be largely hung up on performance numbers that bear little resemblance to real life utility. What does it matter if your bike has 180 RWHP, if you can never use more than 80? If the bike is going to the track, then it might be important. Not so much on the street.
I agree to an extent (for example, I think SS bikes are way overkill for the street).
The scooter is cheaper??!!!!
Than what???. All of the maxis run in the $12,000 and up range with more coming all the time. Looks is a personal choice but in the wet and on long distance the coverage and storage without having to hang stuff all over is a treat.
That why the category is growing and why BMW just got into it.
There are few 650s that cost more than any of the top end maxi's so cost is not really a factor.
Looks are personal - Burgman 650 looks good from the front. Sideview it's a scoot - rear view it's a tourer.
Honda and BMW are addressing this from near naked to near full coverage and the NC700 series is part of that.
BMW has tucked in the two maxis within their already interesting mid range.
Just as not all that many people by all out sports cars the same is true in this area and with gas prices up having a machine that can get 70 mpg real life versus the decent 46 or so I get now is a factor.
The new sports auto transmission gives the designers even more leeway in mildly tuned motors whish still allows decent performance.
When you are on a step through there is little difference in looks.
I'm really hoping to try the DCT version of the 700 series just to offset the negative experience of the stock machine.
Ain't that the truth ... But it's like pissing against the wind.
BimmerMike
Well-known member
fyrebug
Well-known member
I get that you think Scooters are wild great MacDoc and I'm not looking to argue, it just is what is is, no scooter. I feel like you're trying really hard to tell everyone why scooters are better or more practical, gas, 1000km days in comfort, lots of storage, nice turning... it's not that you're shouting into the wind or that people don't get why you like scooters. It's that it's still a scooter. when I'm married with kids mostly grown up, maybe. right now in life? no. I'm not going to tell a girl I ride a scooter. It's really as plain and direct and honest as that. I'm vain and I'm ok with that. I have side bags + top and therefore 122L of storage when I need it and gas is gas it's not the end of the world. as for comfort, well I did what YOU suggested and got the bead rider and it worked pretty darn great!! 530km on sunday with no discomfort. Not looking to argue about scooters here, it IS personal taste, no level of practicality will make me ride one primarily. the gf's ruckus was fun while she had it but I felt silly on it. you could tell me it gets 200mpg and hauls an ikea bed. Still not happening. the only way it MIGHT happen, is with a modded low rider fat back wheel Ruckus. those look pretty neat to me. OR with that Akira style concept scooter that never came out.. I forget what it was called but darn...
The NC700 on the other hand! I'm still interested. The HP thing doesn't bother me. I've since gone from 50hp on the 500 to 98hp on the FZ6 and most of it is in the top end so most of it I don't use on a daily basis. is it better? for sure! does it fly off the line? sure! is it more fun? sure! but it gets old. the fun is 2 wheels I have no issue going back down in HP as long as there's 2 wheels. The NC700 seems practical, looks good (to me) and isn't a theft magnet. I've seen people stop and twist as they walk to look at ninja 250's ride past so no one except people on this forum care what your CC is. I wouldn't mind picking one up in a few years when the itch for something new strikes me.
The NC700 on the other hand! I'm still interested. The HP thing doesn't bother me. I've since gone from 50hp on the 500 to 98hp on the FZ6 and most of it is in the top end so most of it I don't use on a daily basis. is it better? for sure! does it fly off the line? sure! is it more fun? sure! but it gets old. the fun is 2 wheels I have no issue going back down in HP as long as there's 2 wheels. The NC700 seems practical, looks good (to me) and isn't a theft magnet. I've seen people stop and twist as they walk to look at ninja 250's ride past so no one except people on this forum care what your CC is. I wouldn't mind picking one up in a few years when the itch for something new strikes me.
Fyrebug, the truth is that my little Honda Elite 250 scooter pulled more women for me than any motorcycle that I've owned since. Don't let the vanity get in the way, if you think that you'd enjoy a scooter.
You can't tell from the photo, but dude's testicles have now been sucked back into his abdomen.
Fyrebug - you haven't a clue. I'm glad the bead rider worked out but you surely do not understand the merging that is coming in intermediate rides.
There is no defining line for motorcycle versus scooter any more -
I'm at 110 ltres of storage with no sidebag clutter and quite frankly I don't give a rats *** about mileage other than noting the NC700 gets good mileage.
I suspect you be bored to tears on a stock NC700 and get the same grin everyone else does on a Burgman 650 - but you'll never know that cuz your misconceptions get in the way.
What counts on intermediate bikes is the transmission and you don't understand that as you've not ridden both and sports automatics are big time coming to the two wheeled world just like they have to the sports car universe.
I ride a KLR650 down under and the Burgman 650 in Canada and I know very well which ride a girl would rather be on if that matters to you.
I suspect the I'm the ONLY rider here that actually has been on both versions of the BMW 650 and both versions of the NC700 - I've not been on the X with the DCT and that I think is the winning machine.
There is no defining line for motorcycle versus scooter any more -
I'm at 110 ltres of storage with no sidebag clutter and quite frankly I don't give a rats *** about mileage other than noting the NC700 gets good mileage.
I suspect you be bored to tears on a stock NC700 and get the same grin everyone else does on a Burgman 650 - but you'll never know that cuz your misconceptions get in the way.
What counts on intermediate bikes is the transmission and you don't understand that as you've not ridden both and sports automatics are big time coming to the two wheeled world just like they have to the sports car universe.
I ride a KLR650 down under and the Burgman 650 in Canada and I know very well which ride a girl would rather be on if that matters to you.
I suspect the I'm the ONLY rider here that actually has been on both versions of the BMW 650 and both versions of the NC700 - I've not been on the X with the DCT and that I think is the winning machine.
regder
It's not and it will be here more and more as like sports cars it allows you change the nature of the machine at the push of a button or switch.
The guy that rode the VFR1200 with DCT ( he had a stock VFR1200 ) came back and said he wished he had opted for the sports auto set up.
Believe me you don't miss shifting.
As the one reviewer said who dissed the stock NC700 as boring..."if ever a bike cried out for a CVT or DCT the NC700 is it."
CVTs have always held the promised of optimal use of engine power at any speed. It's been slow in coming but especially now with enhanced computers and high gas prices plus a demand for performance as well. It will be.
It's not and it will be here more and more as like sports cars it allows you change the nature of the machine at the push of a button or switch.
The guy that rode the VFR1200 with DCT ( he had a stock VFR1200 ) came back and said he wished he had opted for the sports auto set up.
Believe me you don't miss shifting.
As the one reviewer said who dissed the stock NC700 as boring..."if ever a bike cried out for a CVT or DCT the NC700 is it."
CVTs have always held the promised of optimal use of engine power at any speed. It's been slow in coming but especially now with enhanced computers and high gas prices plus a demand for performance as well. It will be.
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It's called "practicality". Probably a new concept for the insecure boobs from that website.
This was a well detailed review from a pair of Canadian riders.
I certainly did not like the artificial sound Honda introduced on purpose into the series for reasons know only to them tho some may like it.
:roll:
from the review above another one that thinks the DCT version might be a winner. They are annoyed we are not seeing it in Canada yet.
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can't agree with that as I don't think you need to sacrifice fun for practicality.
I certainly did not like the artificial sound Honda introduced on purpose into the series for reasons know only to them tho some may like it.
http://cmgonline.com/2012/08/honda-nc700x-long-termer/
:roll:
from the review above another one that thinks the DCT version might be a winner. They are annoyed we are not seeing it in Canada yet.
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can't agree with that as I don't think you need to sacrifice fun for practicality.
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