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Harley Davidson 2024 lineup

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TK4 said:
Rebel 1100 Touring - Honda Cruiser On-Road Motorcycles Models | Honda Powersports Canada
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I'd barely put that in the touring cruiser category honestly, A batwing and bags does not a cruiser make in the eyes of many. No tour pack? No bueno for many based on both form and function as well. To me it looks like a naked that they put bags on, not a cruiser really.

The lack of a V-Twin also rules it out for a lot of people who are looking for that aspect. Yes, it's easy to say "why would anyone want a big stupid heavy V-Twin when you can have a nice refined parallel twin instead. Except a cruiser purist wants that "Potato-Potato" sound and all the torque that comes with that Vtwin - they don't want a parallel twin.

Are they selling some of those? Sure, but not at a level that's even a hint of a concern for the big boys. And nobody looking to ride 1000km days or is planning to spend weeks on the road riding out west or south or whatever is even going to bat an eye at that thing.

Yamaha really went hard core middle ground with the very bike that I just bought, putting the best parts of a Harley and a Goldwing together in a full dresser cruiser that not only had a soul in the form a big giant honkin V-Twin with an amazing exhaust note right out of the gate (before you even bother with any aftermarket pipes), but has some farkles that many cruiser guys, even a lot of Harley guys, were quietly wanting - power windshield, (somethign they still don't offer), stock heated seats (before that was a HD thing), a kickass infortainment and sound system stock without any need to immediately start changing out speakers, gobs of torque and bested a lot of HD engines at the time, etc etc.

Unfortunately their timing was epicly bad and Covid really destroyed the whole thing. If they brought it back tomorrow, fixed some of the small things that were common complaints, and got more competitive on the price (they were a bit pricy at the time, bordering on Harley money), they'd sell a ton of these things now. But I think Yamaha is a bit gun shy right now, perhaps biding their time at this point until that aforementioned shriking market share for Harley. This same fear of the market (and watching what happened with Yamaha) is probably the same reason Kawi continues to pump out identical bikes for almost 15 years now, unchanged.
 
As for price, I know many big Harley owners and while some are wealthy most were/are not. They hit 40/50 and after lusting after the big Harley lifestyle most of their adult lives so they maxed out on loans/leverage (treated themselves) beyond what they logically should have and made the plunge. Created a big financial hole, some made it out financially intact, some did not.

The reality is the number of people that can pay cash for a $30K+++ bike (toy), any brand, are a finite resource. As the next coming generations hit the 40/50 range there will still be the cash finite resource and the debt hole people will still be around, what will they be buying?

Like "classic" cars, the hot years shift with what that 40/50 year old crowd lusted after when they were young.... some pay cash, many debt/leverage.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Harley gonna Harley.

I think it's inevitable the old faithful aren't going to like "those new fandangled bikes", but if push comes to shove, they'll buy them, and Harley knows that.

And Harley faithful gonna faithful. When you're so invested in a brand, even if you don't like how they change with the times or whatever, you'll still buy the product at the end of the day.

Hard to say how successful that'll be bringing in a new generation though, and as the currently Harley faithful age out of riding, they need to do that. But the price is going to be a huge stumbling block.

I just about choked paying just north of $20K for my new ride. But It would be a cold day in hell before I'd ever pay over $50K for a MOTORCYCLE.

But here's the reality - The metric manufacturers are struggling in the full dresser cruiser/touring market because reality is Harley has it locked up right now.

- Yamaha completely exited it.

- Kawasaki has been pumping out the (literally, except for paint colours) unchanged Vulcan Voyager since 2010.

- Honda has no cruiser touring bike at all right now either aside from the Goldwing which isn't really a "cruiser tourer" - there is no crossover between someone thinking of a HD even remotely considering a Goldwing instead. Their small cruisers don't really compare as IMHO none of them are the sort of bike you'd hop on for a 750km day.

- BMW, they're in the game with the Transcontinental, but they're also in Harley money territory so the crossover is slim. They may be the best suited to avoid the downturn however as their owners typically have deep pockets.

- Indian is the biggest and baddest competitor right now to Harley, but it's also based on the name and legacy, although they do build great bikes as well - arguably better than Harley. But they're also dancing a fine line with a demographic that is fading out, and a price point that won't attract new ones.

When the time comes that the old farts with money crowd start to fade away from riding and the GenX'ers and Millenials coming into it are more likely to be too frugal (or just plain too broke) to even remotely consider $40K+ for a toy, well, it'll be interesting to see if the Metric manufactures jump back in again with lower priced options. There's a reason the Kawi Vulcan Voyager is one of the most popular metric cruisers out there right now, it's because you can get one brand new for under $20K usd, or around $23K Canadian, and I guess they're doing OK with still moving them as they just keep pumping them out.
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I agree with most of this but one thing comes to mind; Peak Powersports posts photos on social media of many of their customers picking up their new toys and if you look at the buyers of many of those big expensive Indian's they don't look like your pictured demographic.
 
One of my many beefs with HD is their over saturation and mass production of “classic” motorcycles.

If everyone had a 1968 corvette it wouldn’t be so cool would it?
 
Hardwrkr13 said:
I agree with most of this but one thing comes to mind; Peak Powersports posts photos on social media of many of their customers picking up their new toys and if you look at the buyers of many of those big expensive Indian's they don't look like your pictured demographic.
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What social media are they posting this on, as I don't see it on their FB page.

It would be in interesting dive into the demographics and potential financial situations, IE are these uncharacteristic buyers either:

(a) Successful yet young(er) people who are enjoying the nicer things in life earlier.

Or.

(b) The insanely overleveraged people @backmarkerducati mentioned above who are in waaaay over their head but gotta keep up their image on social media.

In related news, there will be no pictures of me on the a.m. sales social media taking delivery of my new bike. Personally, privacy issues aside, I think it's foolish to publicly flaunt this sort of purchase.

At least here there's a shred of anonymity, however having your face and name attached to an expensive purchase splashed publicly on social media seems akin to hanging a "expensive shiny object in garage, please steal me" sign out front of your house.

Paranoid, or just wise, everyone's free to decide their own interpretation.
 
PrivatePilot said:
(b) The insanely overleveraged people @backmarkerducati mentioned above who are in waaaay over their head but gotta keep up their image
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HD has had a huge portion of that market for decades. I still remember an exchange of a guy buying a Nightrod from Mackies close to 20 years ago. He was a construction worker (my guess is laborer) and went in with his buddy. He had to have the bike. HD was happy to make it work. I can't remember exact numbers but they were steep and long (maybe $500 a month for 8 years?). His buddy asked how how he was going to afford it. Buyer said he would work weekends to make the extra cash. I don't know when he planned on riding his bike if he was working seven days a week. Oh well, he could tell everybody he has a harley.

EDIT:
I forgot the kicker. The buyer didn't have his license right now, it was suspended. He hoped to get it back in six months or so.
 
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bigpoppa said:
One of my many beefs with HD is their over saturation and mass production of “classic” motorcycles.

If everyone had a 1968 corvette it wouldn’t be so cool would it?
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Fender and Gibson face the same problem - every time they try to introduce significantly new products the faithful lose it.
So they keep turning out guitars with higher price tags because that's what people think they want.
 
PrivatePilot said:
What social media are they posting this on, as I don't see it on their FB page.

It would be in interesting dive into the demographics and potential financial situations, IE are these uncharacteristic buyers either:

(a) Successful yet young(er) people who are enjoying the nicer things in life earlier.

Or.

(b) The insanely overleveraged people @backmarkerducati mentioned above who are in waaaay over their head but gotta keep up their image on social media.

In related news, there will be no pictures of me on the a.m. sales social media taking delivery of my new bike. Personally, privacy issues aside, I think it's foolish to publicly flaunt this sort of purchase.

At least here there's a shred of anonymity, however having your face and name attached to an expensive purchase splashed publicly on social media seems akin to hanging a "expensive shiny object in garage, please steal me" sign out front of your house.

Paranoid, or just wise, everyone's free to decide their own interpretation.
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I bought mine just before I turned 30. My wife just finished university and had an unused student line of credit as I'd been covering expenses and paying it down as we went. Right before she graduated I emptied the student LOC and bought a Harley.
 
TK4 said:
Fender and Gibson face the same problem - every time they try to introduce significantly new products the faithful lose it.
So they keep turning out guitars with higher price tags because that's what people think they want.
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I hope they keep wanting. B has a little guitar collection that is kinda impressive. 1958 Stratocaster, near mint.
 
GreyGhost said:
He had to have the bike. HD was happy to make it work. I can't remember exact numbers but they were steep and long (maybe $500 a month for 8 years?). His buddy asked how how he was going to afford it.
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No shortage of people over leveraging themselves on toys. I was talking to a salesman at another dealer while I was looking at bikes and asked him if ~10% rates has slowed down sales, but apparently not so much. He says a lot of people with less than stellar credit are still coming in and buying bikes and are some are getting rates north of 15%, up to 20% in some cases with less than ideal credit histories, and people still sign away.

I was surprised honestly that 9% was the best I could get offered for in-house financing right now given as how I have stellar credit and no emcumberances, but my guy at AM said that 9% was actually a *good* quote right now and probably reflected those realities.

I saw a "4.99% OAC!" sticker at GP bikes and asked who's getting those rates, but apparently you'll only get those if you're spending 35-40+K on your purchase - 25K or less, not so much. Makes sense considering that sticker was on a full dresser Indian IIRC.

Myself, I plan to pay off this bike in about 2 years or so, between accelerated payments plus the proceeds from my Vulcan when it sells, but holy hell, I know some people just pay the minimums and pay a **** ton in interest.
 
Don't know what banks are offering right now, But things being so unstable in the economy. i think I'll keep my powder dry from any large purchases
 
ToSlow said:
Don't know what banks are offering right now, But things being so unstable in the economy. i think I'll keep my powder dry from any large purchases
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I went and talked to them. They were even more.
 
ToSlow said:
Don't know what banks are offering right now, But things being so unstable in the economy. i think I'll keep my powder dry from any large purchases
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I thought 9% was pretty good for vehicle financing. HELOC's are running about 7.2% right now and the bank has essentially zero risk.

In PP's case, if he pays it off in two years, interest will be a lot less than the taxes he paid (less than $2K in interest).
 
GreyGhost said:
I thought 9% was pretty good for vehicle financing. HELOC's are running about 7.2% right now and the bank has essentially zero risk.
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We were all spoiled during Covid with low rates.

I should have bought this 2 years ago when rates were half the current amounts and locked it in at fixed lol.

But nooooooo, instead I wait like a responsible adult and finally pull the trigger when interest rates are the highest they've been in 20 years lol.
 
PrivatePilot said:
We were all spoiled during Covid with low rates.

I should have bought this 2 years ago when rates were half the current amounts and locked it in at fixed lol.

But nooooooo, instead I wait like a responsible adult and finally pull the trigger when interest rates are the highest they've been in 20 years lol.
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I locked in my car for a long time intentionally. Still have years more on the loan. I'd rather have the money available and rate less than 2%.
 
ToSlow said:
Last time i was talking about new trucks at the local dealers, financing was hovering around 7.99. That was a yr or more ago
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Truck has decent profit in the vehicle. I wouldn't be surprised if they buy down rates for the fancy trucks with high profit for buyers that are offended by high interest rates. You pay the same but the numbers make you happy as you think you got a good rate.
 
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