Getting an ownership with a nvis | GTAMotorcycle.com

Getting an ownership with a nvis

Gbg

Member
Hi guys, been away for a while, but now back into riding. I bought myself and my son a couple of dirtbikes a couple years ago. I was careful to make sure the bike I bought was register-able, because I knew I wanted to ride on Crown land. I managed to register it using the affidavit process (what a nightmare), and now that my son is older, i want to take him with me. When I bought his bike, it came with nvis, filled out in the original buyers name. I thought that the nvis and bill of sale from the subsequent owner would be enough. Sadly, it doesn't seem to be, according to the the different MTO offices I visited. They seem to be stuck on the fact that the nvis is in someone else's name. Their best suggestion was to track down the original owner, have HIM register it, and the hope that he will be willing to sign it over to me. The problems that I see with that solution are: a) I can't contact him, b) I will then have to pay tax twice on that bike that way, and c) I will have to hope that with a ownership in his name, he then is willing to sign it over to me.

What a nightmare. All I want is to be able to take my boy dirtbiking. There is already next to no riding choice in southern Ontario, but taking Crown land out of the equation really hurts. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Sorry, I have no doubt something like this has been asked a million times.
 
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TK4

Well-known member
Your best bet is to try going through someone with a dealer's licence.
They'll be able to navigate the bureaucracy the easiest. They may charge you a couple of bucks, but well worth it.
 

Gbg

Member
I worked in dealerships for years, they generally don't have any special expertise, they just happen to have their ducks in a row when they register and change ownership.
 

Iceman

Well-known member
If the bike was never registered in Ontario, leave the NVIS at home with the bill of sale. Then got to service Ontario and swear out an affidavit just like you did with your other one.

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Robp

Well-known member
Site Supporter
How does the ministry enter the bike without the nvis details?

In my case they entered based on a picture of the VIN (with a few other pictures of the bike to make sure). It really should follow the same procedure as you did before with the affidavit. The fact is that you can not contact the original owner.
 

Gbg

Member
Okay, I can't get anything to work. How about this, who's got the loosest service Ontario branch? Maybe I need a super busy one, or a really half-assed one. Anybody?
 

Michael0124

Well-known member
Was the Nvis filled out then never registered? If not the seller won't have an ownership and the bike was never in his name, that's why the bill of sale from him doesn't mean anything to Service Ontario. Have you contacted the manufacturer or the selling dealer? They would have record of the sale and may be able to help in getting registered.

If you still want to try with different Service Ontario offices try some outside the gta near farmland, wooden areas, etc., higher concentration of dirt bikes in those areas and they may have experience in similar situations.
 

Trials

Well-known member
Was the Nvis filled out then never registered? If not the seller won't have an ownership and the bike was never in his name, that's why the bill of sale from him doesn't mean anything to Service Ontario. Have you contacted the manufacturer or the selling dealer? They would have record of the sale and may be able to help in getting registered.

If you still want to try with different Service Ontario offices try some outside the gta near farmland, wooden areas, etc., higher concentration of dirt bikes in those areas and they may have experience in similar situations.
I should think Service Ontario would be looking to confirm sales taxes have been collected on the original vehicle purchase, otherwise it would be part of their job to collect that tax, yes/no ?
 

Michael0124

Well-known member
I should think Service Ontario would be looking to confirm sales taxes have been collected on the original vehicle purchase, otherwise it would be part of their job to collect that tax, yes/no ?
The Nvis is a titling document provided to the dealer by the manufacturer used to register a new vehicle for the first time. When a dealer registers a vehicle Service Ontario doesn't look for taxes, its understood that the taxes are collected by the dealer.

The problem I see here is that the Nvis was never registered, so Service Ontario has no idea if the vehicle was actually delivered and paid for. Technically that bike still belongs to the dealer. The dealer should have registered the bike properly in the first place, not just given the Nvis to the original owner.

If it was the OPs name on the nvis, it would be easier but I understand why they won't register it, it's akin to me trying to cash a cheque made out to you but with a note saying that you gave it to me and it's ok.

OP reach out to the selling dealer and see if they can help, if they're decent and you ask nicely maybe they can even reach out to the original purchaser on your behalf.
 

Trials

Well-known member
The Nvis is a titling document provided to the dealer by the manufacturer used to register a new vehicle for the first time. When a dealer registers a vehicle Service Ontario doesn't look for taxes, its understood that the taxes are collected by the dealer.
..
So would that tax not be itemized on his bill of sale? Otherwise sales tax is due when he registers the bike in my experience.
 

Michael0124

Well-known member
So would that tax not be itemized on his bill of sale? Otherwise sales tax is due when he registers the bike in my experience.
You are correct if it's a private sale, we pay at registration time. If he bought from a dealership, yes absolutely it would show taxes paid.

I still don't understand why the dealer didn't register the bike in the first place. The OP can't register it because it doesn't technically belong to the person who wrote the bill of sale. Has a UVIP been pulled yet? That would show the dealership name and if it was transferred to the person selling the bike.

Unless there is more to the history of the bike than the OP is aware of...
 

Robp

Well-known member
Site Supporter
As others have said, just contact the original dealership and get a new NVIS.

I swore I replied with my story in this thread, but it must have been another thread. Anyway, something similar to this happened to me.
I bought a dirt bike with no ownership, but the VIN was clear. So I went to Service Ontario to a UVIP. they had no record whatsoever. Then I emailed Apex cycle (the bike was a KTM 85SX) to see if they could bring it up in their system, and they could. Basically the original dealership (I think it was one in Belleville or somewhere out that way) never reregistered with Service Ontario. So the Apex could see in their system that the bike was imported from Austria and then that was the end of the line, so they provided me with a NVIS.

With this I went to a Service Ontario in Brampton (Queen and Chrysler) to get an ownership. The woman at the counter said she couldn't help me, blah blah blah. I stood my ground telling her that I had this dirt bike in my possession and it was not stolen property according to CPIC and she had to tell me exactly what I needed to do to get an ownership. She ended up calling someone on the phone, who then explained to her how to add it in they system. Her and I wrote up an affidavit and I had to do a little swearing thing with my right hand in the air. In total it took me about 45mins to get it.

I wasn't walking out of there without an ownership. It's there damn job to do it.

Edit to add that the woman at Service Ontario didn't care about the NVIS.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
You are correct if it's a private sale, we pay at registration time. If he bought from a dealership, yes absolutely it would show taxes paid.

I still don't understand why the dealer didn't register the bike in the first place. The OP can't register it because it doesn't technically belong to the person who wrote the bill of sale. Has a UVIP been pulled yet? That would show the dealership name and if it was transferred to the person selling the bike.

Unless there is more to the history of the bike than the OP is aware of...
I've seen distributors do this before. A while back a local shop had a bunch of MV Agustas that were being liquidated by the Canadian distributor. Dealers didn't want/need the bikes so they were left with a local bike shop who sold them off to their customers... cheap. They came with NEVIS only.

Same thing happens with scooters and Chinese dirtbikes bikes that are OK'd for sale in Canada, when the importer can't find an OMVIC dealer to sell the bikes they dump them through other channels.
 

Gbg

Member
Okay, I finally got the ownership and off road plate. What a hassle. Thanks to everyone who contributed advice. Firstly, for those that are confused about why the bike hadn't been registered. It's very common with off-road only bikes to not bother getting an ownership. Most dealers will pass the cost on to the customer for the transfer, and a lot of people can't be bothered when the bill-of-sale is good enough, even when crossing the border. My hang up, and as it turned out, the ministries as well, was that I believed the bike could not be entered without the nvis. That was my error. Guys on a vintage bike forum had lots of luck registering bikes that had never been in the system. I prepared an affidavit, modifying one I had used on a bike that had a missing ownership. I was almost home free, when service Ontario insisted on a letter verifying the vin as being Canadian. My local dealer was closed today, so a quick call to Yamaha had an email to that effect in my email minutes later. Kudos to Yamaha for that. After that, I had my affidavit sworn at city Hall. Once at the ministry, I had to insist that the girl call head office, as the vin still didn't work. They instructed her in how to.enter it, and I was done. I still don't believe I needed that verification letter, but it was easier to get than fight it.

For anyone going through this, feel free to PM me, and I can provide a template for the affidavit I used.

Thanks again.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
Dug up this old thread with a search related to the NVIS.

Potential situation: I may be ordering a trailer direct from the manufacturer in Indiana. Seeing as how the border is closed right now I'd have to hire a commercial hauler to bring the trailer across the border for me (I'd probably meet him/her in Windsor and tow it home myself from there) but they'd be picking it up from the manufacturers production facility themselves and bringing it across the border.

I'm presuming this would come only with the NVIS and would travel across the border with no taxes due because it's being imported by a commercial hauler?

There is no dealer on this side of the border it would be going to (as the manufacturer does not have a presence here) so would the hauler just hand over the trailer and the NVIS papers and whatnot to me in Windsor?

And then what?

I've imported trailers before and done the whole RIV song and dance, but this is all different due to the NVIS thing versus having been previously owned/registered.
 

Scuba Steve

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Dug up this old thread with a search related to the NVIS.

Potential situation: I may be ordering a trailer direct from the manufacturer in Indiana. Seeing as how the border is closed right now I'd have to hire a commercial hauler to bring the trailer across the border for me (I'd probably meet him/her in Windsor and tow it home myself from there) but they'd be picking it up from the manufacturers production facility themselves and bringing it across the border.

I'm presuming this would come only with the NVIS and would travel across the border with no taxes due because it's being imported by a commercial hauler?

There is no dealer on this side of the border it would be going to (as the manufacturer does not have a presence here) so would the hauler just hand over the trailer and the NVIS papers and whatnot to me in Windsor?

And then what?

I've imported trailers before and done the whole RIV song and dance, but this is all different due to the NVIS thing versus having been previously owned/registered.
Easy way is to register as homebuilt if you get it here. No idea the other way.

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blackcamaro

Well-known member
Interesting question. Don’t have the answers by any means but a couple thoughts.

Since you would be having it shipped commercially it will likely have to be cleared by a customs broker ahead of time. I can’t see it being allowed to cross otherwise.

Will the U.S guys accept a NVIS instead of a title to clear it on their side? Sure you can just blow through and not stop but I can’t see a commercial driver being cool with this. Do you still need to send the title 36 hours ahead? I don’t know I haven’t imported in probably 10 years.

You would know the commercial requirements for crossing way better then I would so maybe I’m way off.

Maybe call Livingston and see what they have to say?

If you have a specific MTO question for a license office let me know. I usually go in a couple times a week. The border stuff needs sorted first before worrying about that though.

I’m kind of curious. Let us know what you find out.
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
Do you need a logistics company? i have contacts that work both sides.
 

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