Fuel economy :Supersport vs entry level bikes going at 100kmph

sid_for_speed

Well-known member
which one will run out first? Assuming they travel exactly at 100 kmph all the way till one of them runs outta gas

I am assuming it'll be the the (125cc- 400cc) bike class that may lose out because the engines need to work harder to maintain 100kmph whereas SS crusing range might be that speed.
 
which one will run out first? Assuming they travel exactly at 100 kmph all the way till one of them runs outta gas

I am assuming it'll be the the (125cc- 400cc) bike class that may lose out because the engines need to work harder to maintain 100kmph whereas SS crusing range might be that speed.

Smaller bikes win every time.
 
I beat on my gs500 and if regularily get 350+ to the tank. Taking it easy on the sv1000.... 220 if I'm lucky. I understand ur logic but remember even at idle the big bike will down gasoline at an alarming pace. Bigger pistons (or more) = more rotating mass= more fuel required to move said pistons.

That's just a basic explanation. No need to flame it lol
 
Another factor is the amount if cylinders being used. A 4 cylinder bike will always use more gas if everything is constant
 
Number of cylinder mean next to nothing it is displacement and tuning.

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Nope. You only need about 25 hp to maintain 100. Bigger bike will use more gas.

CBR125 - 13hp can hold 120 on flat land and no head wind. Still pulls around 200-250km on a 10L tank though so mileage wise, it seems smaller would be more gas efficient.
 
My CBR250 gets 80mpg using US gallons and 100mpg using imperial gallons. And almost all my riding is done right around 100kph. No SS bike is going to touch that...be lucky to get half that. Mind you they're having more fun:)
 
As OP's question was which will run out of fuel sooner -- size of tank is also a factor -- some bikes have larger tanks and some smaller -- doesn't necessarily correlate with displacement...

And in a practical sense (not just running at 100 kph in a straight line) -- how aggressive one rides also is a big factor in fuel consumption...

My buddy is an iron-butter and his previous bike was an FJR with a secondary tank mounted behind the rider -- big time range!
 
Number of cylinder mean next to nothing it is displacement and tuning.

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You mind elaborating on that?

More cylinders, more moving parts, more friction. At idle you have more cylinders running compared to 2 cylinders
 
You mind elaborating on that?

More cylinders, more moving parts, more friction. At idle you have more cylinders running compared to 2 cylinders

Doesn't work like that there are bigger bearings and pistons etc in the same size twin as four. My twin normally uses more fuel than my friends four cylinder bikes of similar displacement. Number of cylinders is minor and make no practical difference.

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Doesn't work like that there are bigger bearings and pistons etc in the same size twin as four. My twin normally uses more fuel than my friends four cylinder bikes of similar displacement. Number of cylinders is minor and make no practical difference.

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Steve is the smartest guy in the interwebs. Don't argue. :)

No seriously Steve knows his stuff.
 

This is pretty accurate.

On my GS500F, I was paying approximately $15 per 200km using 87 octane gas. The GSX-R750 is around $20 per 200km/h using 91 octane gas. Though the 91 is more expensive, it is definitely using more gas. The CBR250 and Ninja 300 would probably use less gas than the GS500F due to being fuel injected too.

....Either way, both vehicles beat the hell out of car fuel economy. Hybrids might win out vs supersports but I'm pretty sure we can all agree a supersport will be more fun than a cage :)
 
Don't get a big twin or a v4 if you want milage... heh... but a triumph daytona us hard on fuel too so... superbikes are nit fuel misers.

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Its also how they are tuned from factory. The factory tunes SS for most power and reliability, MPG's are not really on their top 10 agenda. Ask BrianP, using a wideband tuner and datalogging and consequent changes to the partial throttle fuel maps he gets crazy gas mileage out of his ZX10R.

Also, you have to realize how an internal combustion engine works. A large engine running partial throttle cruise has the throttle bodies just cracked open letting in tiny amount of air to mix with the fuel for the required power. Think about what that tiny crack is doing to the volumetric efficiency. You have this huge piston being pulled down by the crank which in turns sucks air except its trying to suck air through a straw. This creates huge amounts of vacuum which in turns puts more drag on the crank which in turn takes away power from the cyl which is now on the power stroke.

Go run down the street then try to breathe through a hose, notice just how much harder you have to pull in air to breathe? same concept.

This is primarily the reason that smaller engines that work harder for given HP level get better fuel economy, the throttle bodies are open wider and the cylinders arent fighting each other. This is also one of the reasons that diesels get good mpgs, no throttle body, they always breathe 100% what the intake, valves etc will let it plus a lot of them are force fed air. Also why the new direct injection petrol engines get better MPGs
 
You mind elaborating on that?

More cylinders, more moving parts, more friction. At idle you have more cylinders running compared to 2 cylinders

Ride with more TLR's, RC51's, Superhawks & Ducati's. V-twins suck gas, smaller chambers are just more efficient.

Comparing a CBR125 vs. CBR1000 is just silly, but in the real world on the 401 grinding out miles at 140kph a CBR600 will burn more gas than a CBR1000.
For the same reason, partial throttle is more fuel efficient than WOT.
 
CBR125 - 13hp can hold 120 on flat land and no head wind. Still pulls around 200-250km on a 10L tank though so mileage wise, it seems smaller would be more gas efficient.
Yeah, that 25hp is for a car, figure half the drag, 13hp seems right.
 
There are a lot of factors involved here.

RedLiner740's points about the volumetric efficiency are bang-on. An engine is an air pump. So are a person's lungs. Imagine a person jogging, and that you vary the speed that the jogger runs by varying the amount that you strangle the jogger's neck. Doesn't sound very efficient, does it. Yet that's the way gasoline engines are controlled. They always want to make full power, but we don't always want full power, so we strangle them with a throttle.

So a small engine that can run near full throttle ought to be more efficient than an oversized engine at part throttle. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't. The temperature of the internal components (primarily pistons and exhaust valves) comes into play when the engine is running near full load. Those temperatures will be highest when air/fuel ratio is close to the "ideal" mixture - no excess fuel, no excess air - in engineering terms, "lambda = 1". Most engines run somewhat rich (around lambda = 0.85 to 0.90) near full load, which brings the temperature down a little. Some run unnecessarily rich. Some other engines deal with the temperature by other means ... the lowly cbr125 engine has a ceramic-coated piston as original equipment! The new direct-injection engines (not yet used in motorcycles) can control the in-cylinder fuel distribution better rather than running wholescale rich. The bottom line is that the efficiency is usually best at moderately high load but just below the load where it starts running rich to protect itself. Whether a small engine running full load in rich protection-mode will use less fuel than a slightly bigger engine running less load and leaner air/fuel but with more pumping losses ... is a crapshoot. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Depends which factor wins in a particular situation.

As for the twins versus fours ... The twins have bigger, heavier moving parts. The fours have more of them. Crapshoot as far as friction is concerned. But there's another factor - combustion efficiency. If you try to spin a twin-cylinder engine fast in order to make power equal to a four then it is going to need an extreme bore/stroke ratio. If you try to make that have high compression then you end up with a combustion chamber that looks like a pancake. That's bad for flame travel in the chamber - partly because it's further from the spark plug to the extremities, and partly because the flat-pancake chamber tends to kill charge turbulence, which is what helps flame travel. Slow combustion = lousy efficiency, and to make matters worse, slow combustion = high exhaust temperature = rich operation is needed at a lower threshold to protect the exhaust valves ... and there, folks, is why the big-twin sport bikes (RC51, TL1000, sports-model Ducati, etc) are often thirsty.

Back off the performance level a smidge - bring the revs down a bit to let the bore/stroke ratio return to sanity - and a twin can be very efficient. The BMW F800 series are fuel misers. My rental F800ST used 4.5 L/100 km with me beating on it in the Alps. The Honda NC700 series uses an engine that is more or less half of a Honda Jazz (Fit) car engine and it's supposed to be designed with fuel efficiency as a prime goal. At what point do you draw the line between performance and mileage? I was okay with the performance of the F800ST for what it was. I'm not convinced that the NC700 would do the trick for me, but I haven't ridden one.

Sometimes the OEM ECU calibration is out to lunch. That was the case with my ZX10R. I have no idea what they were thinking when they set that up. Leaning out the part-load made it run better in every possible way. I understand the need for rich-protection to avoid overheat in hot and heavy-traffic conditions ... but the ECU has the information it needs to only do that when necessary rather than doing it all the time.

cbr125 fuel consumption during normal riding 2.6 - 3.1 L/100 km
fzr400 4.2 - 4.5 L/100 km (carbs have been leaned out at part load to give me lean-cruise while still giving proper 0.85 to 0.90 lambda at full load)
zx10r 5.5 - 6.0 L/100 km (EFI set up with the same objective)
My car ... VW TDI diesel 5.5 L/100 km (diesel is a whole lot more efficient in general, for many reasons)
 
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