Feeler Gauges?? Which type????

[GreyGhost]

Some shims can only be measured with a mic.Unless you do trial and error.

You can improvise to sort what you have. Just put them all on the flattest surface you have and slide something across the tops to see where it trips. Reorganize and try again (you can't be sure your surface is flat). The one that trips your feeler should be the thickest. If you are trying to order the correct ones, it's really hard (or expensive) to avoid measuring properly.

 

[Trials]

Actually there is a very cool optical tool for checking surface flatness, interesting enough called an optical flat

 

[boyoboy]

Exactly. When you re-check your clearances before the valve covers go on, does the feeler gauge drag, or go in smoothly. Pretty easy to guess what side of the measurement you are on at that point...

They give an acceptable range for the clearances anyways.

Pretty sure the factory shims come in 2.5 thou graduations.
Also pretty sure the Hotcams kits come in 5 thou graduations. Put it on the loose side of the acceptable values, call it good.

Sometimes you will find odd ball shim thicknesses on the bike new from the factory; rather than in regular graduations from a shim kit.
I ike to save these for myself, for getting the clearances exactly where you want

 

[bitzz]

You can improvise to sort what you have. Just put them all on the flattest surface you have and slide something across the tops to see where it trips. Reorganize and try again (you can't be sure your surface is flat). The one that trips your feeler should be the thickest. If you are trying to order the correct ones, it's really hard (or expensive) to avoid measuring properly.

Pretty sure Ric is reffering to Ducati shims, they're not flat.

They sit on the end of the valve
... but you can measure them with a caliper. You need an anvil of a known dimension

Then

 

[Wingboy]

Almost. The first pic is an opener shim. Measured with a mic. Second pic is of the tool used to measure the closer shims, using a caliper.

 

[Trials]

When you want to sharpen microtome knives you do it on glass plates that have to be checked with an optical flat for flatness :| otherwise your blades would be curved. It's not hard to check if something is extremely flat and if it's not you can grind it that way.
... to make the glass plates flat they grind those together

 

[ReSTored]

OK, so you've measured the valve lash down to half a thou resolution. And shims come in 2.5 thou graduations. What's the point of even trying to get half a thou resolution?

You don't know what you're talking about............ Graduations for Honda ST bikes as per below, adjustable in 1/1000 not 2.5/1000.

One increment/shim size for each thousandth of an inch of desired change.

Honda PNs / Description(mm) / Marked:

14901-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.200) 120
14902-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.225) 122
14903-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.250) 125
14904-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.275) 128
14905-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.300) 130
14906-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.325) 132
14907-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.350) 135
14908-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.375) 138
14909-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.400) 140
14910-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.425) 142
14911-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.450) 145
14912-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.475) 148
14913-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.500) 150
14914-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.525) 152
14915-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.550) 155
14916-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.575) 158
14917-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.600) 160
14918-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.625) 162
14919-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.650) 165
14920-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.675) 168
14921-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.700) 170
14922-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.725) 172
14923-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.750) 175
14924-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.775) 178
14925-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.800) 180
14926-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.825) 182
14927-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.850) 185
14928-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.875) 188
14929-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.900) 190
14930-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.925) 192
14931-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.950) 195
14932-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (1.975) 198
14933-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.000) 200
14934-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.025) 202
14935-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.050) 205
14936-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.075) 208
14937-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.100) 210
14938-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.125) 212
14939-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.150) 215
14940-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.175) 218
14941-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.200) 220
14942-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.225) 222
14943-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.250) 225
14944-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.275) 228
14945-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.300) 230
14946-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.325) 232
14947-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.350) 235
14948-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.375) 238
14949-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.400) 240
14950-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.425) 242
14951-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.450) 245
14952-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.475) 248
14953-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.500) 250
14954-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.525) 252
14955-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.550) 255
14956-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.575) 258
14957-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.600) 260
14958-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.625) 262
14959-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.650) 265
14960-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.675) 268
14961-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.700) 270
14962-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.725) 272
14963-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.750) 275
14964-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.775) 278
14965-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.800) 280
14966-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.825) 282
14967-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.850) 285
14968-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.875) 288
14969-KT7-013 SHIM, TAPPET (2.900) 290

 

[bitzz]

Almost. The first pic is an opener shim. Measured with a mic. Second pic is of the tool used to measure the closer shims, using a caliper.

You can use the tool in picture #2 to measure opening shims with a caliper too.
And yes picture #3 shows a closer shim, but you, Ric, were the only one that knew what he was looking at. I took liberties.

Ya got me there /u/restore. You can buy shims from Honda in 0.0098" increments.
I still don't see why you want 0.0005 resolution to set valve lash... because you don't need it.

 

[Trials]

If it has a nut and a bolt thread adjustment you might say it is infinitely adjustable and you don't need a tray full of special shims to fix it. Thats a way better design

 

[Wingboy]

If it has a nut and a bolt thread adjustment you might say it is infinitely adjustable and you don't need a tray full of special shims to fix it. Thats a way better design

Luddite.

 

[bitzz]

A shim system is lighter and more robust.
Better performance.

 

[bitzz]

And a shim on bucket system is lighter, simpler AND more robust.

 

[Sprintrider66]

So, @oioioi how did it go . . . ?
If you haven't finished yet, I suggest using a worksheet for this job. Attached mine with the numbers so you can see how I do it. Firstly so I know what shims are already in the bike the next time I check - that way you can buy or order shims without removing camshafts. I also have reminders for myself because I can be a real dummy sometimes. I try to get all the valves in the same half of the range (looser since the gap closes over time). If I'm between thicknesses I can make with my gauge set I just record it as a range - the gauge that goes and the one that doesn't.
Re-checking after you're done. You really don't have to be that precise.
I take no credit for this. A very nice Triumph mechanic shared his method with me and now I pass it to you.

 

[oioioi]

Thank you for the worksheet.
I for sure make/use something similar.

As for now, I have not done them yet.
I was waiting to pick up a motorcycle lift and once I found one I tried to tidy up the garage in a hurry.
Now it looks like I will be busy with work for the next little but so the bike mechanic will be a part time, as on call basis.

I am not too worried. I can gave them done in a few days by sending it to someone but I really want to do it myself.

I will update once done, or stuck in the middle of the process.

Thanks again for the worksheet.

 

[Brian P]

And a shim on bucket system is lighter, simpler AND more robust.

Shim over bucket is prone to ejecting the shim if you have an overrev valve-float situation ... and the shim has to be much bigger in diameter (thus heavier) because it is also the contact surface with the cam lobe.

The high-performance engines nowadays have gone to finger-followers. I liked the finger-follower system that my '94 ZX9R had. The finger-follower was positioned along the rocker-shaft by a spring, and sat in a little pocket on top of the retainer. To change the shim, you could push the rocker to the side and fish the shim out without removing the camshaft. Required small fingers, but it worked well.

 

[TwistedKestrel]

ZX-11D had finger followers, was pretty happy with that system. Was maybe a little annoying to pick shims out of the outside fingers, but still way easier than pulling out cams