They need them more than we do. We're within sight of ICU and ventilator demand dropping and staying down. India is not.
This situation is worldwide, ya know.
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Elephant in the Covid room
- Thread starter Wingboy
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They need them more than we do. We're within sight of ICU and ventilator demand dropping and staying down. India is not.
This situation is worldwide, ya know.
lol...yes...but if all the (complex and effective) mousetraps in the world are patent protected you’re **** out of luck if you have a mouse problem and can’t get hold of the mousetraps.
Oh..and there are multiple patent types...use is one...formulation is the other and I’m going to go out on a limb and say that both of those are likely covered by the companies in question who have legal departments with larger numbers of patent agents than they have scientific researchers.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The bottom line is production with Covid vaccines. Releasing IP does nothing to address that problem. There is no magic solution to fixing supply, releasing IP can only impacts cost, that is not an issue.
FWIW, I believe AZ royalty free IP, that’s how Covashield got to market. Don’t see many backyard vaccine producers ready to jump into the game with AZs recipe.
It's royalty free but not “open source” that’s why. The agreement is for it to be royalty free for a certain period.
Patent waiving effectively makes the “recipes“ open source. Also, you’re quite right...it’s not as simple as just saying “ok, here’s the recipe, have at it” but what it does do is take the control away from the companies and hand it over to nations themselves removing one bottleneck. It could also mean a less effective vaccine production being substituted for a more effective one if the plant allows.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
You have to explain the benefit. As far as I can see with Covid vaxs there isn’t one. Just the socialist talking heads with no understanding of the realities of research or production.
the bottom line is opening up the IP on this one has no benefit and a lot of future risk. It’s a stupid argument made by stupid people.
that said, I suspect the IP owners will open it up, only to find zero takers.
Well we can agree to disagree but this path has been followed before and it did result in improvements to supply of a key broad spectrum patent covered antibiotic during the SARS crisis in Canada. There it was just the threat of the patent waiver that made effective change. Since a large number of nation heads , both first and third world, and the WHO are now calling for the patent waiver for vaccines I’d possibly reevaluate who exactly is being stupid at this point.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Is that the same WHO who cow-towed to China to conceal the initial outbreak? I’m sure the Chinese support getting free IP, but for a totally different reason.
So they know for sure we won't need them but they can't say for sure when they can ease restrictions , sure makes sense
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Well, douggie probably finally figured out that gathering a warehouse full of equipment is useless without trained staff to operate it. Ontario ICU's were approaching collapse at 900 patients. Having an extra 3000 ventilators probably does nothing meaningful other than take up space in a warehouse.
So the ICU are packed supposedly , the 4th wave is being talked about but we send equipment overseas. Not logical and doesn't match what they are saying about what is going on.
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Tam warns that full vaccination does not equal immunity from COVID-19
Canada’s chief public health officer reminded Canadians on Saturday that even those who are fully vaccinated remain susceptible to COVID-19.
www.torontosun.com
not packed supposedly, they are packed. The province has spent millions on patient transfers to make room or find space.
The only current condition for AstraZeneca's vaccine is to commit to producing it at manufacturing cost at the moment.
And cost for their vaccine sits at under $3 a dose. That price point means that governments need to fund the expansion and change over for the facility, otherwise vaccine producers will go bankrupt. The EU has been complaining for months about supply, but refuse to spend any money on developing existing facilities to produce it.
We added 1,493 ICU beds last April to treat COVID...
Ontario Newsroom
news.ontario.ca
Plus we will added another 500 in January...
Ontario looks to expand critical care capacity with addition of more than 500 hospital beds
More than 500 critical care beds will be added to hospitals with high rates of COVID-19 transmission, the Ontario government announced Monday.
toronto.ctvnews.ca
Now it shouldn't take a year to give doctors and nurses crash courses on lending a hand in ICUs.
So regardless of how many beds we started the pandemic with, where are these 2,000 beds?
Obviously I was being sarcastic....the point was sending equipment overseas while berating us that they are being overwhelmed is odd
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Good luck with that.
The only reason that works in China is because the government has the people under their thumb, and if you don't do as told or dare speak out against said government, they disappear you....and that puts the people in line to do as told.
Yes, to be fair, the Chinese are also better at following rules willfully to begin with (IE, mask wearing and social distancing etc) but do you really think they could just put up barriers like this one China here in Canada to block off, say, Peel....and people wouldn't just knock them down or whatever and continue on with their daily lives?
As much as a select portion of the population here want to scream from the rooftops that even our current restrictions (IE, being told to wear a piece of cloth over your face) is all "Government tyranny" and all that nonsense , there's 0% chance that they could just wall-off / blockade / sections of entire cities and have that be any sort of effective.
I don't disagree that more regional focused restrictions would be beneficial (IE, the coloured zones we used in the past) and I suspect we will return to that once this full lockdown is over, but even then it was shown that people willfully went from locked down zones to opened zones instead - when much of Toronto was locked down but Durham Region was in Yellow or whatever last fall the Oshawa Centre was PACKED full of people from Toronto out here to do their "essential mall shopping".
Regional lockdowns are a joke. The restaurants in Milton were packed with Peel residents celebrating Ramadan during the last one.
Only really effective if they make the radius surrounding the actual red zones big enough that it discourages people travelling to the nearest open zone. IE if peel is still screwed up, make it a 150km radius or something. Most people aren't going to get in their car and drive 2 hours each way to go shopping.
20-30 minutes? Yep.
People forget the fear last year about no ventilators as it appeared from China and Italy that we would 000s of vents. The ON govt money spent for Linamar to make ON made ventilators.
And then we all act surprised when we have 000s of spare Ontario made ventilators that we can send overseas a year later.
I will go put my surprised look on......
And then we all act surprised when we have 000s of spare Ontario made ventilators that we can send overseas a year later.
I will go put my surprised look on......
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