Do I really need an ABS ? | Page 6 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Do I really need an ABS ?

beverage

Well-known member
If proper judgement is exercised there's no reason to ever travel into an intersection, are you nuts? Blamed the ABS, LOL.
In general, I'm a proponent of ABS on street bikes, but there are several reported instances of ABS kicking in and providing essentially no stopping power when braking over a series of stutter bumps. The theory is that the wheel would lock as it unloaded entering the divot causing ABS to release the brakes just as the wheel reloads hitting the next hump (where the traction would have been maximized), reactivate then easily lock again entering the next divot, etc. resulting in essentially no braking force throughout the series of ripples. These ripples in the road are more likely to occur near an intersection as that's where the pavement takes the most braking and acceleration abuse, resulting in some surprising non-braking events as you try to stop for the light. A non-ABS bike would not suffer this problem. The situations appear rare, but there are enough reported incidents on a variety of ABS bikes to at least make it credible. Every incident I've read appeared to be on an older and/or cheaper bike. I believe most newer ABS systems cycle much faster, thus avoiding the issue, although some of the cheaper bikes on the market may continue using the older ABS systems to keep costs down.

I still think the advantages of ABS on street bikes outweigh the negatives.
 

MacDoc

Well-known member
Site Supporter
For anyone coming late to this thread
No matter how good you think you are you cannot outbrake ABS on pavement and the rest of the "story" reeks of poor judgement. "
These guys are are as good as it gets and ABS has gotten better since this was filmed.


Unless the new rider is heading to off pavement or off road there is simply no rational reason not to have ABS and some of those bikes have switchable ABS.
 

Low rider

Well-known member
Site Supporter
If proper judgement is exercised there's no reason to ever travel into an intersection, are you nuts? Blamed the ABS, LOL.

It's like the perfect "how not to" video to show at M1 EXIT courses. In fact they practice this very scenario in the test.

/facepalm emoji
I give up.

ABS should be mandatory on all motorcycles.

You win. You are God
 

Low rider

Well-known member
Site Supporter
For anyone coming late to this thread
No matter how good you think you are you cannot outbrake ABS on pavement and the rest of the "story" reeks of poor judgement. "
These guys are are as good as it gets and ABS has gotten better since this was filmed.


Unless the new rider is heading to off pavement or off road there is simply no rational reason not to have ABS and some of those bikes have switchable ABS.
This video is BS
 

beverage

Well-known member
This video is BS
Yes, the judgement of a random internet forum poster is much more credible. :rolleyes:
Kidding aside, the video is a bit hokey, but there are several others that essentially reproduce the same results. Yes, pros can out-brake ABS after repeated attempts in known and controlled conditions (i.e. lapping a track), but throw in the unknowns, only one attempt, and panic of a real world street riding situation and ABS will win virtually every time.
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
In general, I'm a proponent of ABS on street bikes, but there are several reported instances of ABS kicking in and providing essentially no stopping power when braking over a series of stutter bumps. The theory is that the wheel would lock as it unloaded entering the divot causing ABS to release the brakes just as the wheel reloads hitting the next hump (where the traction would have been maximized), reactivate then easily lock again entering the next divot, etc. resulting in essentially no braking force throughout the series of ripples. These ripples in the road are more likely to occur near an intersection as that's where the pavement takes the most braking and acceleration abuse, resulting in some surprising non-braking events as you try to stop for the light. A non-ABS bike would not suffer this problem. The situations appear rare, but there are enough reported incidents on a variety of ABS bikes to at least make it credible. Every incident I've read appeared to be on an older and/or cheaper bike. I believe most newer ABS systems cycle much faster, thus avoiding the issue, although some of the cheaper bikes on the market may continue using the older ABS systems to keep costs down.

I still think the advantages of ABS on street bikes outweigh the negatives.
I don't disagree, however the onus is on the rider to make decisions; road conditions, weather conditions and whatever is between your legs.

I won't sit here and blow smoke up anyone's ass about ABS or any other rider aids being the end all be all savior of all riders noob or vet. It's there to assist the rider in hopefully not ending up wrapped around a guard rail, period. Some appreciate the bike working in the background, others prefer to do it the 'old school way', fine no problem.

As i said previously, bad judgments do not equal bad tech.
 

beverage

Well-known member
I don't disagree, however the onus is on the rider to make decisions; road conditions, weather conditions and whatever is between your legs.

I won't sit here and blow smoke up anyone's ass about ABS or any other rider aids being the end all be all savior of all riders noob or vet. It's there to assist the rider in hopefully not ending up wrapped around a guard rail, period. Some appreciate the bike working in the background, others prefer to do it the 'old school way', fine no problem.

As i said previously, bad judgments do not equal bad tech.
I agree that bad judgements do not equal bad tech, but when the tech does not allow the brakes to be applied in a situation where it's expected that they would work, then the tech is bad (in that situation). If the ABS essentially causes you to freewheel into an intersection when all known parameters lead you to expect to stop, and you otherwise would stop without ABS, then the tech needs to be better. Which is why we have newer and more advanced ABS systems available. But older ABS systems are still out there.
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
I agree that bad judgements do not equal bad tech, but when the tech does not allow the brakes to be applied in a situation where it's expected that they would work, then the tech is bad (in that situation). If the ABS essentially causes you to freewheel into an intersection when all known parameters lead you to expect to stop, and you otherwise would stop without ABS, then the tech needs to be better. Which is why we have newer and more advanced ABS systems available. But older ABS systems are still out there.
Fair.

However, I think we need to be a bit more aware of our decision making.

I will not comment further on this particular situation as i don't want to smear any rider.
 

roadrash

Well-known member
Just get whatever works for you. Read up on what ABS is and does, and decide for yourself.

I only buy used bikes, so most times I don't have a choice. My last two bikes had ABS, because I prefer to buy relatively new bikes.

However, if I had a choice, I would go the non-ABS route, as I like to be in full control. I know the risks and I can live with it. I also learned riding on non-ABS bikes (rode them for 5+ years) and feel comfortable on them.

Edit: also, weirdly .. insurance on bikes with ABS is more expensive than on the ones without. Considering ABS increases the safety of a rider on paper, this is counter intuitive to me.
 

Wingboy

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Bring back drum brakes.No more front wheel lockup!



This thread is as ridiculous as an oil thread.
 

Katatonic

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Bring back drum brakes.No more front wheel lockup!



This thread is as ridiculous as an oil thread.
Easy there, buddy. I know brakes are different from the “good ‘old days” when you started riding, but in this case progress is a good thing.

And speaking of oil, should I be using the same on my R6 as my minivan?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Wingboy

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Easy there, buddy. I know brakes are different from the “good ‘old days” when you started riding, but in this case progress is a good thing.

And speaking of oil, should I be using the same on my R6 as my minivan?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NO! Your R6 will last longer on Crisco. (and....these are the good old days)
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
For anyone coming late to this thread
No matter how good you think you are you cannot outbrake ABS on pavement and the rest of the "story" reeks of poor judgement. "
These guys are are as good as it gets and ABS has gotten better since this was filmed....
I wonder how this exercise would look if done by a selection of random Joe rider
Just get whatever works for you. Read up on what ABS is and does, and decide for yourself.

I only buy used bikes, so most times I don't have a choice. My last two bikes had ABS, because I prefer to buy relatively new bikes.

However, if I had a choice, I would go the non-ABS route, as I like to be in full control. I know the risks and I can live with it. I also learned riding on non-ABS bikes (rode them for 5+ years) and feel comfortable on them.

Edit: also, weirdly .. insurance on bikes with ABS is more expensive than on the ones without. Considering ABS increases the safety of a rider on paper, this is counter intuitive to me.
Insurance companies don't look deeply into the payout rates of many things, they tend to generalize. The bike cost is not a big part of the insurance cost, insurance companies worry about liability and accident payouts the most. They know that 600cc sportbikes have double the payouts of 1300cc ST and price accordingly. They know ABS bikes have higher payouts than non-ABS and price accordingly.
 

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