Crash

You guys are all being pretty harsh on Sushii aren't you? I've heard a ton of riders claim that they don't ever use the rear brake. Heck, even the instructors at the MSF course suggested that up to 100% braking should be done with the fronts in an emergency stop.

Is there value to learning how to use the rear brake effectively? Sure. Does not using it make you a terrible or untalented rider who should give up forever? Hardly. In fact--and correct me if I'm wrong but--I believe the primary benefit to using rear brakes during normal riding is to reduce the wear on your front brakes and to take advantage of greater traction during slippery conditions. Aside from that it's just regarded as good form unless you're getting into advanced territory like trail braking.
 
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I was 12-13 riding 2-up with my little brother. Like an idiot we went out and only had one helmet so i gave it to him. While cruising down a gravel road took a corner and he moved and bumped my head with his helmet and i jerked the bike and we went down. Saving the bike from falling on him with my knee. Unfortunately i had shorts on and tore a lot of the skin off my right knee. scratched the fairings to **** and bent the brake lever. Other than that bike was good and i didn't enjoy the 4 km ride back with my leg pouring out blood.

I wear gear now.
 
Yesterday, while heading south on Dufferin, I had to jam on the bakes to avoid rear ending a "last minute" left turning suv. I grabbed the lever hard and jammed on the rear brake. As I watched my front wheel nearing his back bumper - I thought "oh F#@K" I'm going to crash. At that moment my rear wheel started skidding sideways and I quickly let off on the rear brake. Luckily the bike straightened itself and stopped within inches of his bumper....

Lesson learned!

...take it easy out there fellow riders...there is still fine grit on the roads.
 
AF4iK said:
You guys are all being pretty harsh on Sushii aren't you? I've heard a ton of riders claim that they don't ever use the rear brake. Heck, even the instructors at the MSF course suggested that up to 100% braking should be done with the fronts in an emergency stop.

Is there value to learning how to use the rear brake effectively? Sure. Does not using it make you a terrible or untalented rider who should give up forever? Hardly. In fact--and correct me if I'm wrong but--I believe the primary benefit to using rear brakes during normal riding is to reduce the wear on your front brakes and to take advantage of greater traction during slippery conditions. Aside from that it's just regarded as good form unless you're getting into advanced territory like trail braking.
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Hes not being harsh, hes being ignorant.

[h=4]In theory[/h] In theory, you should, of course, brake optimal in an emergency situation: in that case, you have the shortest possible braking distance, and that's exactly what is needed.

But in practice, that's hard to achieve at a moment where panic comes around the corner.

The danger is that you, next to squeeze the front brake (which is perfect if you do it like squeezing a lemon, and not all in once), also will slam the rear brake, and hold on to it, which is not ok.

[h=4]Pull the clutch and use the front brake[/h] For a real emergency stop, you can better leave the rear brake for what it is, and only use the front brake. On top of that, you pull the clutch.

[h=4]Why no rear brake?[/h] It is very difficult not to slam the rear brake in an emergency situation, and especially to let the rear brake go in time. If your muscles get tense in such a situation, the tendency is to push the rear brake hard with your foot.
That will result in a locked rear wheel. If you are lucky, it will slide from left to right and back, and if you are less lucky, the rear wheel will move passed the front wheel.

In an emergency situation, you don't want that.
That's the reason for the advice not to touch the rear brake in an emergency stop.
As a bonus, the bike will stay upright, because the rear wheel will keep turning. A turning wheel has resistance to move sideways.
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AF4iK said:
even the instructors at the MSF course suggested that up to 100% braking should be done with the fronts in an emergency stop
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No, they don't: http://motorcycleridingschool.tumblr.com/post/9956693480/msf-quick-tips-emergency-braking

AF4iK said:
In fact--and correct me if I'm wrong but--I believe the primary benefit to using rear brakes during normal riding is to reduce the wear on your front brakes and to take advantage of greater traction during slippery conditions
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Sure, you're wrong.


Hes not being harsh, hes being ignorant.
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Wow, that's funny... the students I teach every weekend would probably disagree with that summation.


You might want to tell Kevin Schwantz and many others that they have/are doing it wrong all these years!
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Happy to...
 
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Am I correct that on ABS bikes I shall hit both brakes equally hard? On my new one I intentionally tried to skid rear wheel, but looks like it is impossible - brake pedal starts vibrating violently, and that's it - no skid.
 
Elena P. said:
Am I correct that on ABS bikes I shall hit both brakes equally hard? On my new one I intentionally tried to skid rear wheel, but looks like it is impossible - brake pedal starts vibrating violently, and that's it - no skid.
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with abs braking you can squeeze as hard as you want, the vibrating just lets you know where the lock up threshold is.
 
Is there any benefit to using the back brake? Yes.

Does it do much in an emergency braking situation? No. Most bikes, other than heavy rear end cruisers, will have virtually no weight on the rear under heavy braking.

If not equipped with ABS, is there a strong probability that hitting the rear in an emergency will make bad things happen? Yes. As there is not much weight on it, it is extremely easy to lock.
 
yeah i agree with Griffin. I find hitting both brakes in a hard braking situation usually results in a locked rear and slide.

but generally i hit both brakes when slowing down regularly.
 
Acadian1974 said:
If this is the case you have much bigger problems than a basic riding course will solve... perhaps you should reconsider riding altogether.
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Is this how you motivate your students? By not answering their question when asked and then telling them to reconsider riding?
 
I low sided on the DVP in the rain because the rear brake locked up slowing down. I since then use the front brakes to react to the various conditions, emergency or otherwise, but then I follow up with rear brakes to complete my stop. Using both brakes will stop the bike in a shorter distance than using just one. It still occasionally slides in the last 10 feet of stopping but by then I am already below 10km/hr.

IMHO in reacting to an emergency situation sometimes there is a panic that would lead to extra jamming on the brake pedal causing a slide.

I also backed off my rear brakes a little so that it is not ultra sensitive anymore.
 
Good thread to place my experience from yesterday afternoon, especially considering all the talk about front/rear breaks.

I was coming down main street at speed limit, looking to turn left at the next set of lights. There were cars stopped to my right because of a red light, but because I was going past them with the intention of turning right and not going straight, I kept my speed at the limit and made my way to the lights.

However, one of the stopped cars waved a car through from the right, that intended to make a left turn onto the street at proceed North (I was heading south).

He couldn't see me because of the cars blocking his view and the same goes for me. I saw him at the last second as his car pulled in front of me. I literally had milliseconds to respond and instinctively grabbed the front break too hard, causing the forward motion and the sudden stop to kick me right over the handle-bars where I fell right in front of the car with the bike on top of me.

I've gone over the situation in my head countless times and the only way to avoid a similar situation in the future is to ride more defensively. Knowing that stopped cars may wave a driver through who cannot see anything until it is too late, I can slow my speed next time and do what I can to ensure that the coast is clear before proceeding to the light to make my turn.

I hope this was explained well enough. The driver was charged in the incident and I was hauled to the hospital. Originally, the EMS feared a broken hip, but X-rays showed nothing but some pretty bad bruising. I'm limping but I'm alive and I'm thankful for it.

Any insight as to what can be done in the future to avoid this would be greatly appreciated.
 
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