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China

bigpoppa said:
No extradition treaties?
They laugh at copyright judgements from other countries?
Businesses dont want to piss off china?
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Forget businesses, governments won't touch them. Because we held a probable criminal for the US, a few Canadians were kidnapped and we were entirely powerless to do anything other than hopes and prayers.
 
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-Maverick- said:
I'm hoping no one falls for this...I doubt many do...if you do, you probably shouldn't be riding!

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The guy formerly known as Mladin.
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The people that get stuck with them will likely be the secondary market. Buying a BNIB helmet from kijiji or marketplace from an ad along the lines of "I bought this but it didn't fit my head and I can't return it. Selling for 75% of retail to try to get some of my money back". It's a quick way to turn a few hundred dollars into $1000 (as long as you don't care that you are jeopardizing peoples lives).
 
Customs does not inspect 100% of imported products for compliance with regulations. If you bought something (anything) from China, would you want customs opening and inspecting the contents of EVERY box being imported and repacking them before they end up at your doorstep? Doesn't happen. They don't have enough resources to make it happen. You wouldn't want to pay for enough resources to make that happen.

For some types of imported products (e.g. motor vehicles, some food products) there is an import process that has to be followed, but helmets aren't one of them.

The cold-hearted way of looking at this, is that some proportion of the cheapskates will end up paying for their cheapskatedness.
 
So these are fakes? replicas? non-certified for NA / EU use?

I mean they look good in the pics, but I guess that's where that ends.
 
mimico_polak said:
So these are fakes? replicas? non-certified for NA / EU use?

I mean they look good in the pics, but I guess that's where that ends.
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It would be interesting to see how far they went in the copy. I assume they are a generic shell with graphics and/or add-on plastic pieces to match their intended product but maybe they actually custom molded a shell based on the real helmet. You can guarantee they haven't been tested though so I wouldn't trust my life to it.
 
GreyGhost said:
It would be interesting to see how far they went in the copy. I assume they are a generic shell with graphics and/or add-on plastic pieces to match their intended product but maybe they actually custom molded a shell based on the real helmet. You can guarantee they haven't been tested though so I wouldn't trust my life to it.
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Not planning on ever buying it, just curious how deep the fake goes...basically is it from the same factory and just didn't pass. Obviously 'too good to be true' type of thing, but I am curious.
 
mimico_polak said:
Not planning on ever buying it, just curious how deep the fake goes...basically is it from the same factory and just didn't pass. Obviously 'too good to be true' type of thing, but I am curious.
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I would be shocked if shoei let them slip out of the factory. Quality brands normally destroy product that can't be sold for whatever reason. I assume they are cranked out of a random factory.
 
How do they get away with it?

I would expect the cost of chasing it, catching it, proving it and then prosecuting it would be astronomical. Then there's the issue of where are you going prosecute it. China? They don't care and they're never going to care.

As for someone in "the west" buying it despite the risk to their life and limb, counterfeit goods abound with plenty of people proudly pointing out that they've got a knock-off that cost them so much less that the original.
 
-Maverick- said:
Pick it up around the 5 minute mark...impressive slow motion camera.


The guy formerly known as Mladin.
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What happens to a good helmet under those test conditions? Dropping a 45 lb weight ~8' to wedge the helmet between the falling weight and concrete floor is a pretty brutal test. It looks like proper testing is something like a 10 to 22 lb headform dropped 0.75 meters and measure g forces. In other news, if you run over a wish helmet with a tank, it won't protect you and your head will be crushed.
 
The knock off Pakistan leathers don't look half bad. Watched a video on a test on them and they only failed in two areas. Considering that most leathers are made there, it would be interesting to see how they hold up.

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The guy formerly known as Mladin.
 
I've been very happy with the HWK brand of low price/high design gear. They are a US company but sourcing from Pakistan,
Inexpensive and returnable.
have two pairs of pants and a jacket. I suspect he is being supported by the Pakistan gov to get their manufacturing base up. The guy is a rider and it shows in the feature set. Durable??? good so far but too early. Best fit ever and fits to size. Near daiy riding for 6 months and aside from needing to be careful threading the zipper ( jack has waterproofing so always a bit tricky with the layers ) no issues at all.

'

The question that arises is why with modern manufacturing are the "brands" so expensive.?
 
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MacDoc said:
The question that arises is why with modern manufacturing are the "brands" so expensive.?
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R&D and marketing. I would peg that actual production costs are very minimal compared to everything else. This is the reason why there are a lot of small online online companies that are able to sell products made at the same factories as the big names for a significant discount.

Small anecdote, years ago I knowingly bought a pair of fake Ray Bans off ebay. I have no idea how fake they actually were. The case was fake but the sunglasses were 100% identical to the real thing, to the point that I'm pretty sure they were the real thing. Whether the factory ran an extra batch or they fell of the line somewhere along the way, who knows.
 
MacDoc said:
The question that arises is why with modern manufacturing are the "brands" so expensive.?
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Dainese/Alpinestar/Arai/Shoei/etc do actual research and development to improve their products ... that's not cheap.

Then someone offshore figures they can make something that looks the same (to some degree) although with who knows what cost-cutting in place. Safety and compliance with regulatory requirements is the last thing in those copycat's minds when they print out a DOT sticker and stick it to the back of the helmet shell that they just injection-molded out of plastic and slapped a couple pieces of styrofoam and fabric inside.

YES, it is possible that an aftermarket piece came off the same production line as the genuine brand-name piece ... contract manufacturer production over-runs and the like. You can be darn sure that a manufacturing facility that is directly owned by big-brand-name X is not going to be unknowingly manufacturing and selling excess production or copycat product (although it could very well be contract-manufacturing for other brand names). For contract-manufacturing - If production "overruns" are marketed under the same brand name, the company behind the real brand name is not going to be happy with their contract manufacturer for doing that. If it's sold under a different name then it depends on the contract terms between the brand-name company and their contract manufacturer.

Even among brand-name companies, I'm pretty sure there are not as many helmet-manufacturing plants as there are helmet brand-names ... there's contract-manufacturing going on.

Bottom line "if you have a $10 head then go ahead and buy a $10 helmet". Otherwise, if you are going to buy a brand-name helmet, buy it from a vendor that is known to be an official dealer for that brand. This is not something you want to buy online for the cheapest price you can find ... you'll get what you deserve.
 
Just a longer term follow up on the HWK gear... I have two pant types and one jacket.
The mesh pants are no longer available but had a button failure on the front

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Now they were a tad tight from the get go but the waist band is so adjustable figured not a problem but one button was always difficult to connect and eventually failed.
Sleeve Grey Collar Dress shirt Blazer


and that is due to inferior materials. The corrosion is due to the high heat and humidity here and even stainless steel is affected but the materials are too light duty for the stress.
Good news is 5 year warranty and the company jumped all over dealing with AND getting to the bottom of the quality control for the future.
One day response.
Hello Mac ,
I'm really sorry for this inconvenience.
We will take this into account very strictly to make sure it doesn't happen again.
We will improve our quality control for future batches . I assure you it will not happen again.
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Other than than that ( the pants have been worn about 10,000 km in high heat, humidity and rain ) 3 times a week up to 6 hours a day and remain wearable even with the missing fastener. So they knew that the area was a stress point...I had other riding pants fail in the front closure area too.
They are really comfortable and all other features remain working easily.
 
for the cheapest price you can find ... you'll get what you deserve.
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My question is DO you get what you deserve with high end helmets and other gear.....I'm from Missouri.
Even the same brand names have devolved to inferior materials over time in too many cases.

My used C3 I was happy with at $300 but I had to replace the defective visor mechanism which they claimed was a safety feature. :mad:
For $900 new, you shouldn't get stupid.

I am impressed with RevIt after watching Itchy Boots tour of the factory and her use in the field but the gear is out of my price range for the use I have.
Her Hoodie was not and is well made.

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