Yes the DS is gorgeous! Wouldn’t mind that upgrade but I don’t think it’s diff enough from the Icon to justify that jump.
CFMoto 800 MT-X adventure bike.
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
Gaoler
Well-known member
Let's see what folks have to say about this bike seven-ten years from now...
If I were in the market for this style of machine at that price....I'd open my wallet a little bit more and get something pre-enjoyed from any number of established brands.
Plus... the CCP already gets enough of our f****in' money.
If I were in the market for this style of machine at that price....I'd open my wallet a little bit more and get something pre-enjoyed from any number of established brands.
Plus... the CCP already gets enough of our f****in' money.
I'm content not ordering my replacement OEM parts off Ebay and Aliexpress for at least another decade. Fitment guides are a complete **** show still too once it's a few years ago. Such little support.
That was... interesting...
"Looks cool and with KTM-tech it should be a reliable bike too."
I never thought aspiring to have KTM-like reliability would be a selling point for anything
I feel like I didn't properly **** down this thing's throat enough, so I'm back for a second round of number two!
I was thinking about how this bike fits in long term. Who does it actually make enough sense for?
@Jayell mentioned that people that want this bike for off-roading, won't want this bike for off-roading, due to the weight. Cool.
I'm going to go ahead and add to that, that the people buying this kind of bike for on-roading, probably want this kind of bike for long distance riding, far from home. When I'm cross country touring far from home, the last thing I want is some random motorcycle no one's owned and worked on before. I want the most common thing that anyone can work on and anyone can get parts on, anywhere, with dealers galore to choose from.
That's why I shipped my BMW G650GS to Italy for my annual cross country rides starting in 2023. To give you an idea of how popular BMW motorcycles are over there, in the span that covers the equivalent distance of Windsor to Quebec City, BMW has 110+ dealerships in Italy. THAT's what I want for my touring bike.
"BuT i FiX mY oWn MoToRcYcLeS bEcAuSe I'm A rEaL mAn." Uh, probably not this one, tough guy. Because I'm guessing it's Euro 5+ compliant, and if it isn't already, it probably will be soon. That means if there's anything changed, or anything 'off' with the exhaust system, catalytic converter, or the lambda sensors, it'll all of a sudden throw itself into limp mode and you better hope you aren't on the highway if that happens.
"My BuDdY CaN jUsT bRiNg Me A nEw ExHaUsT sYsTeM oN tHe SiDe Of ThE rOad." Sure, I believe you, but that still won't help, because these new Euro 5+ bikes, once they go into limp mode NEED a dealer with the proprietary dealer tool to get it out of limp mode. That is the only way to get your bike out of limp mode, no matter how manly and self-sufficient you and your oddly-faithful buddy are.
And that's why NO ONE should buy a NEW touring bike that doesn't have LOTS of dealerships in the place you'll be touring. Old bikes - no worries, we're still cool, buy weird old **** if you want to.
Speaking of buying... Have you seen what the resale market for this brand is like? It's brutal.
I just don't get who it's for. It doesn't make sense for the off-roader, it doesn't make sense for the touring on-roader, it doesn't make sense for someone who might want to "try it for a season or two and then sell it"... I just don't get how it makes any sense for anyone, other than someone who just wants to pose on their adventure bike from one Timmies bike meet to another... and even then, isn't that what most BMW GS' are for?
This thing makes no damn sense.
I was thinking about how this bike fits in long term. Who does it actually make enough sense for?
@Jayell mentioned that people that want this bike for off-roading, won't want this bike for off-roading, due to the weight. Cool.
I'm going to go ahead and add to that, that the people buying this kind of bike for on-roading, probably want this kind of bike for long distance riding, far from home. When I'm cross country touring far from home, the last thing I want is some random motorcycle no one's owned and worked on before. I want the most common thing that anyone can work on and anyone can get parts on, anywhere, with dealers galore to choose from.
That's why I shipped my BMW G650GS to Italy for my annual cross country rides starting in 2023. To give you an idea of how popular BMW motorcycles are over there, in the span that covers the equivalent distance of Windsor to Quebec City, BMW has 110+ dealerships in Italy. THAT's what I want for my touring bike.
"BuT i FiX mY oWn MoToRcYcLeS bEcAuSe I'm A rEaL mAn." Uh, probably not this one, tough guy. Because I'm guessing it's Euro 5+ compliant, and if it isn't already, it probably will be soon. That means if there's anything changed, or anything 'off' with the exhaust system, catalytic converter, or the lambda sensors, it'll all of a sudden throw itself into limp mode and you better hope you aren't on the highway if that happens.
"My BuDdY CaN jUsT bRiNg Me A nEw ExHaUsT sYsTeM oN tHe SiDe Of ThE rOad." Sure, I believe you, but that still won't help, because these new Euro 5+ bikes, once they go into limp mode NEED a dealer with the proprietary dealer tool to get it out of limp mode. That is the only way to get your bike out of limp mode, no matter how manly and self-sufficient you and your oddly-faithful buddy are.
And that's why NO ONE should buy a NEW touring bike that doesn't have LOTS of dealerships in the place you'll be touring. Old bikes - no worries, we're still cool, buy weird old **** if you want to.
Speaking of buying... Have you seen what the resale market for this brand is like? It's brutal.
I just don't get who it's for. It doesn't make sense for the off-roader, it doesn't make sense for the touring on-roader, it doesn't make sense for someone who might want to "try it for a season or two and then sell it"... I just don't get how it makes any sense for anyone, other than someone who just wants to pose on their adventure bike from one Timmies bike meet to another... and even then, isn't that what most BMW GS' are for?
This thing makes no damn sense.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
This pretty much echos my sentiments.I feel like I didn't properly **** down this thing's throat enough, so I'm back for a second round of number two!
I was thinking about how this bike fits in long term. Who does it actually make enough sense for?
@Jayell mentioned that people that want this bike for off-roading, won't want this bike for off-roading, due to the weight. Cool.
I'm going to go ahead and add to that, that the people buying this kind of bike for on-roading, probably want this kind of bike for long distance riding, far from home. When I'm cross country touring far from home, the last thing I want is some random motorcycle no one's owned and worked on before. I want the most common thing that anyone can work on and anyone can get parts on, anywhere, with dealers galore to choose from.
That's why I shipped my BMW G650GS to Italy for my annual cross country rides starting in 2023. To give you an idea of how popular BMW motorcycles are over there, in the span that covers the equivalent distance of Windsor to Quebec City, BMW has 110+ dealerships in Italy. THAT's what I want for my touring bike.
"BuT i FiX mY oWn MoToRcYcLeS bEcAuSe I'm A rEaL mAn." Uh, probably not this one, tough guy. Because I'm guessing it's Euro 5+ compliant, and if it isn't already, it probably will be soon. That means if there's anything changed, or anything 'off' with the exhaust system, catalytic converter, or the lambda sensors, it'll all of a sudden throw itself into limp mode and you better hope you aren't on the highway if that happens.
"My BuDdY CaN jUsT bRiNg Me A nEw ExHaUsT sYsTeM oN tHe SiDe Of ThE rOad." Sure, I believe you, but that still won't help, because these new Euro 5+ bikes, once they go into limp mode NEED a dealer with the proprietary dealer tool to get it out of limp mode. That is the only way to get your bike out of limp mode, no matter how manly and self-sufficient you and your oddly-faithful buddy are.
And that's why NO ONE should buy a NEW touring bike that doesn't have LOTS of dealerships in the place you'll be touring. Old bikes - no worries, we're still cool, buy weird old **** if you want to.
Speaking of buying... Have you seen what the resale market for this brand is like? It's brutal.
I just don't get who it's for. It doesn't make sense for the off-roader, it doesn't make sense for the touring on-roader, it doesn't make sense for someone who might want to "try it for a season or two and then sell it"... I just don't get how it makes any sense for anyone, other than someone who just wants to pose on their adventure bike from one Timmies bike meet to another... and even then, isn't that what most BMW GS' are for?
This thing makes no damn sense.
If CFmoto wants to enter the market in a serious way, they should price the 450 around $5k, sell lots of them based on price. Get a bunch of bikes out there then grow or die on the sword of dependability.
All Ive seen so far is noobs and YouTubers that review their bikes after putting on 1500-5000km in a year.
If CFmoto sent me one for free, I’d ride the crap out of it for 2 years and 40,000 km, then. Compare it to my Jap bike experiences.
I can understand why somebody would buy one. Not me for all the reasons you note and more, but likely plenty of somebodies.I feel like I didn't properly **** down this thing's throat enough, so I'm back for a second round of number two!
I was thinking about how this bike fits in long term. Who does it actually make enough sense for?
@Jayell mentioned that people that want this bike for off-roading, won't want this bike for off-roading, due to the weight. Cool.
I'm going to go ahead and add to that, that the people buying this kind of bike for on-roading, probably want this kind of bike for long distance riding, far from home. When I'm cross country touring far from home, the last thing I want is some random motorcycle no one's owned and worked on before. I want the most common thing that anyone can work on and anyone can get parts on, anywhere, with dealers galore to choose from.
That's why I shipped my BMW G650GS to Italy for my annual cross country rides starting in 2023. To give you an idea of how popular BMW motorcycles are over there, in the span that covers the equivalent distance of Windsor to Quebec City, BMW has 110+ dealerships in Italy. THAT's what I want for my touring bike.
"BuT i FiX mY oWn MoToRcYcLeS bEcAuSe I'm A rEaL mAn." Uh, probably not this one, tough guy. Because I'm guessing it's Euro 5+ compliant, and if it isn't already, it probably will be soon. That means if there's anything changed, or anything 'off' with the exhaust system, catalytic converter, or the lambda sensors, it'll all of a sudden throw itself into limp mode and you better hope you aren't on the highway if that happens.
"My BuDdY CaN jUsT bRiNg Me A nEw ExHaUsT sYsTeM oN tHe SiDe Of ThE rOad." Sure, I believe you, but that still won't help, because these new Euro 5+ bikes, once they go into limp mode NEED a dealer with the proprietary dealer tool to get it out of limp mode. That is the only way to get your bike out of limp mode, no matter how manly and self-sufficient you and your oddly-faithful buddy are.
And that's why NO ONE should buy a NEW touring bike that doesn't have LOTS of dealerships in the place you'll be touring. Old bikes - no worries, we're still cool, buy weird old **** if you want to.
Speaking of buying... Have you seen what the resale market for this brand is like? It's brutal.
I just don't get who it's for. It doesn't make sense for the off-roader, it doesn't make sense for the touring on-roader, it doesn't make sense for someone who might want to "try it for a season or two and then sell it"... I just don't get how it makes any sense for anyone, other than someone who just wants to pose on their adventure bike from one Timmies bike meet to another... and even then, isn't that what most BMW GS' are for?
This thing makes no damn sense.
There's people who will just say, "I like it." Good enough. I saw them at the show and they are nice looking bikes. Most people aren't that demanding of the motorcycles they buy, so the riding to timmies you mention is about what they expect. Maybe a light grocery shop to reinforce the notion of utility as they got the panniers and topcase. Their expectations are much, much, MUCH lower that ours. A cruise along Hwy. 2 our here to Port Hope for a butter tart is their adventure. If they're feeling like REALLY going off the beaten track they might ride to/from here on Lakeshore Rd. from Newcastle. It's bumpy.
There's some who will swallow the marketing bs and believe that these things are, not just off road capable but actually FUN TO RIDE off road. They're not, unless you're just riding wide dirt/gravel roads then they're fine and even satisfying. They're (top) heavy, geared too high and too long for actual trail riding. Those buyers are the same ones who point to Yamaha videos of Pol Terres (??) riding a highly modified 700 Tenere like a trials bike or a motocrosser and say "See! You're just old and wrong!" To which I reply, "An you're not Pol Terres, have about 2% body fat and do THAT for a living."
As for the Euro 5/tech stuff, unfortunately it's inevitable and unavoidable if you want a new vehicle of any kind. Fortunately, there's a seemingly bottomless inventory of lightly used motorcycles for people like us to choose from.
Regarding that intrusive technology, it appears that my GasGas 700 has a side stand kill switch which can't be trail rigged in-case of failure or damage. I have to determine if my 2024 model is Euro 4 or 5 and choose the correct bypass dongle. Euro 4 is $40 and the Euro 5 one is $90.
If the switch gets damaged or just fails then the bike is immobile. I have had those switches fail for both reasons in the past so I'm dongling.
Good points all around, and the best point is that the answer is ‘it depends’.
Let’s face it both within GTAM and outside there aren’t that many riders that will take their bikes for more than a few hour jaunt regularly and (like me) end our adventure within the daylight hours.
I agree though. If CFMOTO wants to build their brand, flood the market at an attractive price and build your reputation.
When my buddy said he spent close to 20k on the IBEX800 I almost fell off my chair.
I saw a sweet 2020 BMW F for 9k this morning which got me all excited…and I’ll take a 2020 BMW over a 2025 CFMOTO any day for half the price.
Let’s face it both within GTAM and outside there aren’t that many riders that will take their bikes for more than a few hour jaunt regularly and (like me) end our adventure within the daylight hours.
I agree though. If CFMOTO wants to build their brand, flood the market at an attractive price and build your reputation.
When my buddy said he spent close to 20k on the IBEX800 I almost fell off my chair.
I saw a sweet 2020 BMW F for 9k this morning which got me all excited…and I’ll take a 2020 BMW over a 2025 CFMOTO any day for half the price.
Brought to you by the people who gave us the Tiananam Square massacre.
(some reading for you younguns 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre - Wikipedia )
(some reading for you younguns 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre - Wikipedia )
Goes back to my post a few days ago that all the new tech is actually exactly what's stopping many of us from ever wanting to buy new motorcycles and I suspect does new vehicle sales as much harm as it does good...
- Sent from one of my two 15 year old BMW GS' that will probably out-live most of us.
Keep in mind Euro 5+ catalytic converters are designed to last a minimum of 30k-ish km.
Theoretically, if you did 40k km in two years, you could be stuck in limp mode, facing a trip to the dealer and needing to buy an OEM catalytic converter, and out of warranty, and looking at huge parts and labour bill just to ride your own bike two years after you bought it...
Yes, I realize this comment in particular is borderline fear-mongering, and yes, I realize that it applies to every Euro5+ bike out there... but the growing manufactured need for dealer reliance we'll be facing moving forward is real, and that makes a strong dealerbase all the more important...
People who buy the wrong brands (even those who only put a few miles on them) are going to suffer more than ever on resale and on general PITA-ness of dealing with these bikes as they age. If you save a couple thousand buying this, versus a Japanese bike, but you lose several thousand more when you sell it, versus a Japanese bike, then it's not a bad financial decision, not a good one.
Yeah, you can count me into that group that has shied away from new for the most part. While the GasGas IS a new bike (Euro 4 it turns out) it's well down-market compared to other offerings. Plus it was heavily discounted and It's VERY VERY red. It also reminds me of my first bike, a 1980 DT100 and my 2000 XR650L. I enjoy the big single experience.
In the end though I expect to put many more miles on my professionally updated and refurbished 1982 R100RS compared to the 700. Carburetors, no ride modes, no nanny/safety features, no ABS, no canbus, no ECU and no subscriptions required. Slower and with vintage braking (albeit modern pads) and a bit agricultural in sound and feel but I'm not in a hurry anymore.
More and more folks simply buy and ride without consideration to such things. Looks the part, cost to acquire seems better than most, I can purchase and take part in the adventure or lifestyle that it seems to support.
How many new riders know how or where to check oil, let alone know how to top it up or even know where to get some more?
It’s ride and take is somewhere to have it looked at by someone else. Do dealers even ask purchasers if the know how and when to lube a chain or what is involved for service and maintenance intervals?
How many posts do we read of what’s the best tires to buy or oil to buy or where to get their bike looked at?
They see a style, colour option and price point and go without any consideration of dealer support, aftercare/service and they will post a negative google review if there is a stumble along the way.
Try as I might, younger gens tend to dismiss experienced input. Yeah, thanks boomer, eye roll and carry on. Then live stream the debacle for “likes” for others to join in the fun and one up each other.
Apologies if I took a wrong turn on this thread. I’m tracking my parts order placed a while ago for the other hobby toy and looking forward to sharing the unboxing with fellows at the next cars and coffee. lol.
How many new riders know how or where to check oil, let alone know how to top it up or even know where to get some more?
It’s ride and take is somewhere to have it looked at by someone else. Do dealers even ask purchasers if the know how and when to lube a chain or what is involved for service and maintenance intervals?
How many posts do we read of what’s the best tires to buy or oil to buy or where to get their bike looked at?
They see a style, colour option and price point and go without any consideration of dealer support, aftercare/service and they will post a negative google review if there is a stumble along the way.
Try as I might, younger gens tend to dismiss experienced input. Yeah, thanks boomer, eye roll and carry on. Then live stream the debacle for “likes” for others to join in the fun and one up each other.
Apologies if I took a wrong turn on this thread. I’m tracking my parts order placed a while ago for the other hobby toy and looking forward to sharing the unboxing with fellows at the next cars and coffee. lol.
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The only thing you should be apologizing for is depressing the **** out of us... but only because you're right
