Carpenters! Question about cabinet plywood | GTAMotorcycle.com

Carpenters! Question about cabinet plywood

eljay

eljay

Well-known member
So I'm going to make some cabinet boxes for a family room built in. How do I choose what to construct them out of if I'm indifferent to the species?
Someone told me go with Baltic birch, others said maple. Pine looks ok but is it too soft. Is oak to much to deal with as an amateur?
I'm going buy doors separately and veneer edges with something to be chosen later to match the door.

What else do I need to ask?

If this works I'm doing the whole kitchen...
 
A lot of cabinet makers use particle board for the boxes and finish the edges with veneer to match the doors.
 
Not a carpenter but Baltic Birch is a higher quality wood and is me more expensive than Maple. I like the finish look on it vs Maple but it is not a huge difference. Maple Plywood is easier to find.

A lot of cabinet makers do you use particle board as it is cheaper but quality kitchens are always plywood.
 
The harder the wood = harder to fabricate = more time spent
 
I'm an industrial panel products specialist (plywood)
particle board is just fine and the most expensive kitchens still use it. It holds a fastener well and is consistent in thickness.

veneer core plywood is strong, but tends to bow on large gables, its a tiny bit more expensive that particle core. 90% of what you will fine in a lumber yard is on offshore produced core and not flat, its also undersized 11/16 not 3/4 so your router bits and dados are a problem.

Baltic birch has the misconception of being the rolls Royce of plywood, I'd use it to make drawer boxes but not cabinets on a large scale. There are many grades of Baltic ply, you cant just declare it awesome

the species of hardwood veneer will have no effect on how hard plywood is to work with, it will be a price point.

most lumberyards sell price point plywood, its ok but not great.

most carpenters (and some cabinet makers) have no clue about hardwood cabinet ply, what option are available, and why when they have a booboo they blame the plywood. A lot of my selling time is spent on education.
 
I have been manufacturing cabinet doors for the kitchen and bath market for 17 years. My father has been building cabinets before we started manufacturing doors for 30 years. From high to low end veneered particle board is used probably %90 of the time. I have hundreds of customers that make cabinets in Canada and again probably %90 use veneered particle board. It could be a $10,000 kitchen or a $100,000+ kitchen. Even when we made solid wood doors, the rails and stiles were solid wood but the panel in he middle was veneered particle board.

It weighs less so when you make bigger cabinets they don't weigh a ton, as mentioned it's also straighter and truer then most plywood. Holds well with glue for a dado or rabbet joints with no visible fasteners. Also easier to cut dados and rabbits.

As for the type of wood veneer that's most s cost vs style thing. I've used Birdseye maple veneer in the past that was $500 per 4x8" sheet. Not everyone can afford to build cabinets out of that kind of material. Regular maple in comparison can be had for $50 a sheet. Depends what look your going for and if your budget can afford. If your super rich use Honduras Mohogany or something exotic

Oak is old school we discontinued pretty much all oak gain and colors years ago as people stopped buying them when they went out of style. Maple grain, birch, and others are more popular then oak used to be. Same with pine it's long gone

Nothing beats solid wood but it's so expensive these days, people generally don't make a big kitchen or wall unit out of it. a lot of people are fooled by veneer and think it's solid wood
 
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Im surprised at the quantities of oak we move, but mostly in a straight grain (select quarters) or false rift. Rotary cut oak is pretty outdated, but still the biggest seller in the lumberyard world. Boy its ugly.

OP, your out in Oshawa, go see Peacock Lumber. They are the last lumberyard in your area that still has a relationship with CV (direct manufacturer) , they have a nice cabinet ply selection. If you knew EXACTLY what you were looking for, you could do a cash sale at Wanderosa or McFaddens, but they don't really want joe public in there and will not be helpful on a 3-6 sheet order, its a PITA to them.

JohnnyP , what does your family business operate as?
 
I do go to Peacock, they are generally pretty good as far as finding what I want but when I don't know what I want they can't help because their answer is usually, hey whatever you want.
I'm not too keen on particle board because Ikea really turns me off, so I'm definitely bent on going the plywood route, just wondering which one since they are pretty pricey. Also not confident enough in my joinery skills that something so malleable as particle board could handle my f ups.
The finished product I'm not looking for woodgrain, I'd like to smooth it as much as possible and paint to match the mouldings (which are mdf). I'm guessing maple might be the way to go for that?
Doors I'm not going to make, I'd rather buy and paint to match as well.

crankcall said:
Im surprised at the quantities of oak we move, but mostly in a straight grain (select quarters) or false rift. Rotary cut oak is pretty outdated, but still the biggest seller in the lumberyard world. Boy its ugly.

OP, your out in Oshawa, go see Peacock Lumber. They are the last lumberyard in your area that still has a relationship with CV (direct manufacturer) , they have a nice cabinet ply selection. If you knew EXACTLY what you were looking for, you could do a cash sale at Wanderosa or McFaddens, but they don't really want joe public in there and will not be helpful on a 3-6 sheet order, its a PITA to them.

JohnnyP , what does your family business operate as?
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Buy the doors first, then look for the wood for the cabinets to match?

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don't buy the doors first, they are the expensive part and if you missmeasure on the boxes its expensive throwing out doors. If you do this for a living buy doors, if your putzing in the basement don't.
95% of high end kitchens are particle board, downsview, Elmwood, Artcraft, it not an Ikea thing. Because the edgebanding sticks better, the hinges will fit in the cup holes and slides stay attached, and the gables don't warp.
Veneer core plywood, even domestic is usually made on an import core, its not calibrated , has a wavy surface, and is full of core voids. You can get domestic core, it has to be spec'd and its expensive, and still has core voids. So you drill a 35mm hole for the blum hinge and your fastening it to air. At least use premcore if your going to use VC ply.
If its just a painted box why even use plywood? save a fortune and just build it out of mdf sheets.
If you go to a lumberyard for MDF, look at the lift, if there is an orange strip spray painted down the corner of the lift , don't buy it. That's mill run (utility mdf) and its got a crappy density and internal bond. There are several grades of MDF, you get what you pay for.
 
Going off on a tangent here but the comments from our more informed members i.e. crankcall, JohnnyP636 point out that nothing is simple. We generally think that everything is simple and "I can do that" but there is a reason that people with years of experience get better results.
 
nobbie your right, its more than simple for good results, but its not complicated either. Reasons professionals get better results, they have access to materials that are not on the shelf at Home depot, they have beams saws and scoring saws, edge banding machines and a Heisman standing in the corner. You can build a nice cabinet in the garage, and I have for yrs, but production caliber machinery makes it a lot easier for beginner.
My current kitchen was built in my basement shop, its as adaquet as any, but I've been doing this for yrs.
 
and I enjoy doing it. cost is not an issue for me really, it's more about just getting done what I want and my wife thinking it looks good.
I'm comfortable with mdc, so I might try that. Another reason I had preferred ply wood was water resistance, that "just in case someone hoses down my room at least the wood i worked on forever could be pat dry and not hit the landfill instantly".
I'm not looking to save money, more just get working and not regret my choice in material.
I've got a family room 2 bedrooms and a laundry room in that order to build cabinets for before I attempt the kitchen. Could be a few years the way I go. If the last of those looks nice, I'll try doing the kitchen but that's just intimidating.

crankcall said:
nobbie your right, its more than simple for good results, but its not complicated either. Reasons professionals get better results, they have access to materials that are not on the shelf at Home depot, they have beams saws and scoring saws, edge banding machines and a Heisman standing in the corner. You can build a nice cabinet in the garage, and I have for yrs, but production caliber machinery makes it a lot easier for beginner.
My current kitchen was built in my basement shop, its as adaquet as any, but I've been doing this for yrs.
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I usually only custom-make stuff at home because it allows me to make something that looks like it belongs there. But I have to say that on my last two houses, in some cases I bought cabinets and made them into built in's. You may have seen them do this on a lot of the HGTV programmes. It's cost effective and less disruptive to my family.
 
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Can I derail this thread by asking what people are using to paint cupboards and cabinets?
 
inreb said:
Can I derail this thread by asking what people are using to paint cupboards and cabinets?
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Paint. ?
Would need to know what they are made of.
Don't forget that when painting doors to paint inside as well so they don't warp. Many people do not do this.
@crankcall was just throwing the door first idea out there. Obviously not a good suggestion.
Was in the home of one of the owners/ brothers from Downsview. His kitchen is ridiculous.
Used to help out at Nima Kitchens years ago. High end Italian cabinets imported in for a condo development. Particle core wrapped with melamine / foil.

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White melamine is most cost effective and most widely used for cabinet construction, whether low-end or high-end. If you really want plywood construction then I would recommend purchasing pre-finished maple plywood. While particle board may be most popular for cabinet construction MDF is (arguably) more suitable for fronts/doors, whether you're laminating, veneering or painting. You can make your own fronts/doors out of MDF but I would recommend edging all edges in solid maple before painting.
 
Used to use an oil primer on mdf prior to painting because the latex stuff could be absorbed and make it bubble. What to use now?
And iirc, particle board sags under it's own weight at spans >3', so keep that in mind for design/ construction if you go that route.

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prefinished maple is a nice choice, but the finish is a UV cure polyester acrylate so nothing sticks to it and its not refinishable if you scratch a pc. and you still have edges to deal with, its pretty nice stuff otherwise.
I don't paint cabinets , I use a tinted pre cat laquer, but I have the capacity to spray. In a pinch and I'm stuck spraying something at the cottage I use home depot brand melamine paint. Its predictable and sprayed produces an ok product, I'm using an Earls brand airless sprayer.

I used to use a lot of mdf to make boxes and builtins, other than really heavy its a great product to finish, paints up like car parts.
 
Benjamin Moore Advance paint rolled on
Primer is some other BM thing can't remember the name.
Prime sand then paint sand paint sand paint sand... repeat until satisfied. I roll with foam.
I may make the leap to spraying on the next project but I'm working in the basement and my wife freaks out about odours and VOCs and all that kind of stuff that I thought just smelled nice so I need to be selective. Haven't done much research on it but Advance has worked for me. Can't rush it though.

inreb said:
Can I derail this thread by asking what people are using to paint cupboards and cabinets?
Click to expand...
 
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