Bicycle Protests | Page 14 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Bicycle Protests

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The problem I see, is that the city relies on the ticket for source of revenue. There no incentive for the city to make the roads or park safer ie. speed bumps, traffic islands, bike path, traffic school. Why move a red light camera, if it's preventing drivers from running the light - not making money?, why change the speed limit from 40km to 30km, as mentioned above why location of speed camera are chosen based on ease of installation rather than need.
Having bicycles plated and registered is ridiculous, what's next? insurance? This is just opening another source of revenue nothing to do with safety.
Having cameras everywhere is not needed or wanted by most people. They are illusions of safety.
Ebikes should not have to licensed or registered. People use them because they can't afford a car, insurance, transit or have mobility issues etc.
All ages, background, jobs, social status, from grandmas, to off duty police offices, nurses, doctors, teenage kids, soccer moms, etc get tickets/fines. They probably don't consider themselves be entitled. They just made a mistake
 
justride said:
The problem I see, is that the city relies on the ticket for source of revenue. There no incentive for the city to make the roads or park safer ie. speed bumps, traffic islands, bike path, traffic school. Why move a red light camera, if it's preventing drivers from running the light - not making money?, why change the speed limit from 40km to 30km, as mentioned above why location of speed camera are chosen based on ease of installation rather than need.
Having bicycles plated and registered is ridiculous, what's next? insurance? This is just opening another source of revenue nothing to do with safety.
Having cameras everywhere is not needed or wanted by most people. They are illusions of safety.
Ebikes should not have to licensed or registered. People use them because they can't afford a car, insurance, transit or have mobility issues etc.
All ages, background, jobs, social status, from grandmas, to off duty police offices, nurses, doctors, teenage kids, soccer moms, etc get tickets/fines. They probably don't consider themselves be entitled. They just made a mistake
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Why? Why should a 50 cc scooter be required to be registered plated and insured but if you put an electric motor in, all of those requirements disappear? Both operate very similarly. If ebikes don't require all of that expense, why don't they allow lsm's to have the same freedom? The current ebike regulations are atrocious. It should have been 25 kg max pedelecs and then I would be far more inclined to agree with you. 120 kg beasts that cannot be moved by pedal power are not ebikes. They are lsms skirting the law (well they should be but wynnebag was a corrupt pos).
 
justride said:
Ebikes should not have to licensed or registered. People use them because they can't afford a car, insurance, transit or have mobility issues etc.
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Legitimate pedal assist bicycles that do not weigh half a ton, don't have a throttle, and are not designed to go over 32km/h shouldn't be licensed and ensured.

These motorcycle look a like electric motorcycles should be licensed, plated and ensured. They are not bicycles and are designed to be easily modifiable to go 60km/h. Making them limited speed mopeds.

If they don't need to be licensed and insured then the Honda Ruckus shouldn't be either due to being similar in speed and operation.

Heck the Harley Live-Wire let's deregulate them as they are just another electric bike.
 
justride said:
All ages, background, jobs, social status, from grandmas, to off duty police offices, nurses, doctors, teenage kids, soccer moms, etc get tickets/fines. They probably don't consider themselves be entitled. They just made a mistake
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The laws on speeding, stop signs, red lights, crosswalks, street car doors, driving on side walks are decades old. Some newer ones like HOV lanes don't take a rocket scientist to figure out. These cut and dry applications of the law are easily enforceable with automated cameras.

More subjective issues like "unsafe" lane changes where perspective varies among people and are therefore both harder to automate and some leeway should be provided sure.

If they can't understand these basic cut and dry application of the law as they had to when they got their G1 or 365. They are either have become entitled and deserve the tickets or they have mental degradation and perhaps need their licenses renewed through testing or outright revoked.
 
Dimitri said:
We really need to start requiring all adults riding bikes to get City of Toronto license plates and e-Bikes to get Limited Speed provincial plates.

Then sprinkle speed cameras in the park and voila, no more speeding, it's fair, and the city gets to make money.
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For some reason when I see someone advocating more government regulations and accompanying fees I get this urge to round up the village folk with torches and pitchforks....
 
Dirty Frank said:
For some reason when I see someone advocating more government regulations and accompanying fees
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I'd rather not advocate for this in all honesty. If common sense, courtesy and sharing existed I wouldn't be the grumpy old man shaking my fists that I am in these posts.

But after putting on an average of 30,000km a year for the last decade downtown Toronto for work, plus cycling, being a pedestrian, taking the TTC, and now riding a motorcycle.

I just want fair application of the law and the idiots I see every day either quit or become better road users.
 
Hey, late to the thread and I'm not reading 14 pages.
My input: Screw bicyclists who think the HTA doesn't apply to them because they're somehow special. Ticket the **** out of them.

Had a massive laughing fit at the one guy on the news a week or so back screaming about his fail to stop (at a stop sign) ticket and yelling about how he was going to take it to court and "absolutely beat it".

/opens case for tiny violin
 
Rode home today along a beautiful stretch of freshly paved road, curving through the highlands with little to no traffic for a hundred kilometres. I saw exactly one cyclist in what should be a paradise for them.
 
Once again. This all comes down to "design your infrastructure for the behaviour you want to see".

If you build a system that's not efficient and doesn't take into consideration the most common use cases (or don't adapt to new and recurring uses cases) people will find a way to try to get around your system.
When we see an accident happen, or a rule being broken SEVERAL times over, instead of waiting to see if it happens again, or just keep enforcing, what can you do to improve and iterate to prevent it from happening again so that you limit the number of similar accidents or prevent the need for enforcing.
Can we help prevent it elsewhere where there's a similar configuration?

We need a more holistic approach to this! We're just looking at curing symptoms, not the disease.
 
Dimitri said:
That privilege and lack of common sense permeates across all road users in this city.

Look at Bay Street. Right lane is only buses, cyclists, motorcycles and taxis. Every self-entitled driver blocks it every day driving on it or using it to stand during rush hour. So much so that the left lane actually moves better.

Look at the taxi I was in yesterday who ran the open streetcar doors on Bathurst street as people were getting off.

Or the guy on an e-bike on the side walk that nearly took out my 5 year old because he was in a rush to pick up an Uber Eats order last night.

We need all cyclists plated and registered, all scooter e-bikes licensed, plated and insured.

We need every school zone, every red light, every street car, cross walk, (Edit: ) HOV lane and full stop to have automated camera enforcement of the rules of the road.

When all road users stop getting tickets because they stop acting like d**ks on the road. Then maybe we can discuss turning the 400 series highways into the autobaun and giving cyclists in High Park a high speed zone.
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Zombie: A taxi in rush hour was legally stopped in a HOV lane letting out a passenger. The sole occupant of a car behind him was blowing his horn because he, Mr Solo, was being delayed.

E-bikes aren't that cheap and apparently are commonly stolen. I get it that a low income earner needs cheap transportation so how about a $500 pedal bike? It's easier to secure and maintain.

Some low income earners need a car and if their car is damaged by an errant bicyclist that hits and runs, they pay for the repairs or suffer the loss of value.

Fines are for revenue, not correcting the problem. IMO a fine the first time in three years, the second offense is a stiffer fine and a day with a driving instructor (At offender's expense), then a week of traffic training.

I don't have a problem with the High Park five mile race being held once a month. IIRC it was at daybreak on a Sunday. The organizer would be responsible for stewards and signage. The thing held up the roads for less than a half hour and alternate routing would still be mostly available.

Training on the course would be the problem.

The route: Start southbound at the tennis courts / pool on Colborne Lodge Drive, left on Centre Road (steep downhill), Hard left on the now closed Spring Road and back up to Colborne Lodge drive (steep uphill at the end of Spring Road), Left on Colborne Lodge to the tennis courts for the lap. Three laps is just under five miles.

We need more infrastructure as well as attitude adjustment. A lot of centennial Park is sparsely used, especially near the locked up bicycle BMX part. Pave a track as well and have a responsible group maintain it and its use. What other facilities are available with a minor conversion? How much does it cost to pave a mile of track from scratch?

Should public transit drivers be given special powers to report dangerous drivers such as open dooring street cars, cutting off Go busses?

What would happen if taxi passengers reported the incidents to the cab company as well as the police?

I saw a lazy taxi driver stop three feet from the curb to let a passenger out. The passenger opened the door just as a bicycle was passing and took him out (Minor damage) but who would be responsible if it was worse?
 
LePhillou said:
Once again. This all comes down to "design your infrastructure for the behaviour you want to see".

If you build a system that's not efficient and doesn't take into consideration the most common use cases (or don't adapt to new and recurring uses cases) people will find a way to try to get around your system.
When we see an accident happen, or a rule being broken SEVERAL times over, instead of waiting to see if it happens again, or just keep enforcing, what can you do to improve and iterate to prevent it from happening again so that you limit the number of similar accidents or prevent the need for enforcing.
Can we help prevent it elsewhere where there's a similar configuration?

We need a more holistic approach to this! We're just looking at curing symptoms, not the disease.
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Back to infrastructure, we have little of it left in the GTA and it's expensive. I'm guessing you could pave a track for a half million or so but the land in the burbs would be many millions per acre. Buildings extra. Who's pocket?

Joggers have the options of sidewalks but also the local high school football field. Not a good partnership for bikes.

How do golfer's manage to have exclusive use of huge attractive facilities?
 
justride said:
The problem I see, is that the city relies on the ticket for source of revenue. There no incentive for the city to make the roads or park safer ie. speed bumps, traffic islands, bike path, traffic school. Why move a red light camera, if it's preventing drivers from running the light - not making money?, why change the speed limit from 40km to 30km, as mentioned above why location of speed camera are chosen based on ease of installation rather than need.
Having bicycles plated and registered is ridiculous, what's next? insurance? This is just opening another source of revenue nothing to do with safety.
Having cameras everywhere is not needed or wanted by most people. They are illusions of safety.
Ebikes should not have to licensed or registered. People use them because they can't afford a car, insurance, transit or have mobility issues etc.
All ages, background, jobs, social status, from grandmas, to off duty police offices, nurses, doctors, teenage kids, soccer moms, etc get tickets/fines. They probably don't consider themselves be entitled. They just made a mistake
Click to expand...
Why is a plate on a bicycle ridiculous and one on a moyorcycle not-ridiculous?
 
nobbie48 said:
Zombie: A taxi in rush hour was legally stopped in a HOV lane letting out a passenger. The sole occupant of a car behind him was blowing his horn because he, Mr Solo, was being delayed.
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Worse when I see that on Bay and passenger cars regardless of occupants are not permitted 7am to 7pm.

nobbie48 said:
E-bikes aren't that cheap and apparently are commonly stolen. I get it that a low income earner needs cheap transportation so how about a $500 pedal bike? It's easier to secure and maintain.
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The DUI mobiles cost $3,000 or more. They are in the realm of motorcycles and scooters they mimic.

nobbie48 said:
Should public transit drivers be given special powers to report dangerous drivers such as open dooring street cars, cutting off Go busses?
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HTA Section 206.1 allows for automated street car cameras.

We just need someone with the will to make the TTC implement them.

nobbie48 said:
I saw a lazy taxi driver stop three feet from the curb to let a passenger out. The passenger opened the door just as a bicycle was passing and took him out (Minor damage) but who would be responsible if it was worse?
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In my opinion passing from the right is always their fault. In this case the cyclist.

Even with 3 feet cyclists are supposed to be 1m from the curb and passing on the right that they all do is already illegal.

nobbie48 said:
How do golfer's manage to have exclusive use of huge attractive facilities?
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It's a sport of the public service, upper middle class and upper class. So when the cities dump money into golf courses not a peep from them about it.

Which that attitude extended to the way they prioritized opening them first during lockdowns. But that's off topic.
 
Mad Mike said:
Why is a plate on a bicycle ridiculous and one on a moyorcycle not-ridiculous?
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Because someone who can afford a $3,500 e-bike can't afford a $10 plate.

It's being an elitist to want them plated so they can assume responsibility for their actions on our roadways.

Now how they are going to pay for brake jobs as most e-bikes claim their pads are only good for 6,000kms. Perhaps an act of God?
 
LePhillou said:
Once again. This all comes down to "design your infrastructure for the behaviour you want to see".

If you build a system that's not efficient and doesn't take into consideration the most common use cases (or don't adapt to new and recurring uses cases) people will find a way to try to get around your system.
When we see an accident happen, or a rule being broken SEVERAL times over, instead of waiting to see if it happens again, or just keep enforcing, what can you do to improve and iterate to prevent it from happening again so that you limit the number of similar accidents or prevent the need for enforcing.
Can we help prevent it elsewhere where there's a similar configuration?

We need a more holistic approach to this! We're just looking at curing symptoms, not the disease.
Click to expand...
Easiest and cheapest way to change the infrastructure would be to ban bicycles, confiscate them when found, and auction them off somewhere else. That would be one heck of a cure.
 
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