油井緋色;2090585 said:
Yep. During WW2 those guys were making guns where the tolerances are so narrow you couldn't fit a razer blade, lol. I believe it was the Luger
Axis vs. Allies
- Thread starter fastar1
- Start date
Yep. During WW2 those guys were making guns where the tolerances are so narrow you couldn't fit a razer blade, lol. I believe it was the Luger
Griffin
Well-known member
The Luger is a 1908 model. The Walther P-38 was not as well designed or made but more effective and cheap. Still pretty darn good. Interesting to note that often Germans were grabbing Russian weapons and Americans were grabbing German weapons and everyone was grabbing Czech weapons.
OP - much is due to the Marshal Plan wherein the victors realized that having exhausted and devestated economies in Italy, Germany and Japan was not in the world's best interest. Hence, huge investment in getting these economies back on their feet. Hence continued progress in R&D while some folks rested on their achievements and ta da, you have failure to progress and improve, comparatively speaking.
Well, not so much Italy. They had an amazing heavy bomber, but almost all their other equipment and vehicles were horribly outclassed.
To be fair, that was because Musso had thought Italy would be in a big war in the very early 30's, so their big building programmes had aimed for that date and a most of their kit was horribly out of date by the time WWII rolled around.
The Allies had great things too. English tanks were ****, but they had probably the best quality airforce in the world at the start of WWII (though the Germans were almost as good and a lot larger). The Americans eventually had some amazing stuff (great planes and Shermans were great tanks other than their ****** firepower - which the English fixed by putting big guns on 'em). Even the Russians had great tanks, the best in the war.
The old English rep for high-performance stuff was well-deserved... once upon a time.
[/war nerd]
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The Luger is a 1908 model. The Walther P-38 was not as well designed or made but more effective and cheap. Still pretty darn good. Interesting to note that often Germans were grabbing Russian weapons and Americans were grabbing German weapons and everyone was grabbing Czech weapons.
OP - much is due to the Marshal Plan wherein the victors realized that having exhausted and devestated economies in Italy, Germany and Japan was not in the world's best interest. Hence, huge investment in getting these economies back on their feet. Hence continued progress in R&D while some folks rested on their achievements and ta da, you have failure to progress and improve, comparatively speaking.
Maybe the grass is always greener on the other side. During the Vietnam war the Americans were dropping their new plastic guns for AKs
I think OP is discussing why the Former Axis nations are producing such quality machines now. I agree, Italy produces the Baretta 92 which has been used by law enforcement all over and they produce the lengendary Benelli M4.
Thats exactly how BMW got into the motorcycle business, they were told no more airplane engines, had to build something.
Bmw was building motorcycles before WWII
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_BMW
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At the end of the war the victors still had the industrial complex in place, largely factories from the thirties. Axis powers, for all intents and purposes, had their industry bombed to pieces. So the rebuild of the economies was such that the axis powers got a new industrial complex in the late forties-early fifties, competing with the allied industrial complex of the thirties. Thus they actually became more efficient and competitive. A new economic competition ensued. The yanks at the end of the war imposed the system of US industrial relations upon the Japanese - in a failed effort to drive inefficiencies into the Japanese system of industrial relations. What they failed to take into account in this grand experiment was the cultural difference between the USA and Japan. It was these cultural differences that drove Japanese industry to become even more efficient than their American counterparts. Where they adopted the "three pillars" of industrial relations - 1. Enterprise unionism (which the Germans also adopted) 2. Jobs for life and 3. Ever increasing wages. This worked throughout the postwar period but ultimately ended up being Japan's undoing when increased exchange rates and the banking crisis hit. All of those cultural advantages were then lost and some have argued that a "dual economy" resulted, creating great rifts between what could be called major multinationals and smaller non-unionized shops. Coupled with the increased competition from emerging economies with lower labour rates-Korea,China, Malaysia etc.
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Um, who said it was post-war?
Sure the Allies won, but which tank would you rather be in?
The Italian air force was pretty good, just small. Their fighters were the match of Spitfires & Mustangs for most of the war, and their pilots were pretty good too.
As a bit of history nerd factoid, the original Vespa was built out of leftover fighter aircraft parts. Piaggio was the biggest aero manu in Italy, and Italian fighter aircraft not being in big demand after the war they came up with the Vespa as a cheap people mover. It's swoopy wasp shape was from the aircraft pressed steel panels that were turned into body work, the small wheels came from aircraft tail wheels, and the 2-smoker engine was the starter motor for it's big V12 1500hp aircraft engines.
One more little blurp, Ferrari's "Prancing Horse" came from the personal symbol of Italy's WWI fighter ace. Who flew a Piaggio.
Sure the Allies won, but which tank would you rather be in?
The Italian air force was pretty good, just small. Their fighters were the match of Spitfires & Mustangs for most of the war, and their pilots were pretty good too.
As a bit of history nerd factoid, the original Vespa was built out of leftover fighter aircraft parts. Piaggio was the biggest aero manu in Italy, and Italian fighter aircraft not being in big demand after the war they came up with the Vespa as a cheap people mover. It's swoopy wasp shape was from the aircraft pressed steel panels that were turned into body work, the small wheels came from aircraft tail wheels, and the 2-smoker engine was the starter motor for it's big V12 1500hp aircraft engines.
One more little blurp, Ferrari's "Prancing Horse" came from the personal symbol of Italy's WWI fighter ace. Who flew a Piaggio.
They were prevented from building aircraft engines after WW1, treaty of Versailles, had been Rapp airricher works, renamed Bayricher something or other around 1919? and started bikes and cars in the 20's, They needed product.
They started aircraft engines again in the last 30's against company director wishes, but by then nobody in Germany really cared about the Treaty of Versailles. Built awesome jet engines, then lost the war again and it was back to cars and bikes. Same deal for the Italians, they made some great airplanes, till they lost a war.
Thats how Ducati got into the bike business, (post WW2) they made cameras and electrical components but they needed a salable product so they came up with the cuciolo (the little pup in Italian) engine that mounted on a bicycle frame. The devistated economy needed cheap and easy transportation.
don't up wikipeadia as your reference point. And you owe me a beer for questioning BMW history.
I was a bmw afficionado, I have a book on my coffee table about bmws, lol. Definitely not using Wikipedia as a crutch
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Same with Piaggio, they had a ton of small aircraft parts after a factory was bombed, cobbled together a low-cost, easy care scooter. The original wheels and suspension were landing gear.
nope , doesnt matter, you had a coffee table book and still missed the fact there was more than one world war. Beer please, maybe a fine German beer like DAB, so we can share the irony.
what kind of planes were the Germans flying when they bombed Pearl Harbor?
Thats a trick question :lmao:
And also pioneered heavy use of fuel injection. Bf109's had a significant edge during certain manoeuvres early in the war due to their fuel injected engines. The Brits did come up with a fix for the carburetor engines the Spits used, the story of which is pretty funny: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Shilling's_orifice
Um, who said it was post-war?
Sure the Allies won, but which tank would you rather be in?
Why not a Tiger II then? LOL
It's true that Italy had some comparable fighters (I imagine you're referring to the Serie 5 trio?), but they were in such small numbers. Most of the Regia Aeronautica was equipped with older models that were outclassed, like the Fiat CR.32, or later subpar designs like the Macci C.200. Had the war happened in the early 30's the Fiat CR.32 would have been a world beating fighter, being well ahead of comparable designs.
The Serie 5 fighters were certainly excellent planes, but the Italian production lines were so archaic that they couldn't really produce the planes in good numbers.
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Ok you got me cranky, I reread your post & realised I misinterpreted your post. I thought you meant "bmw never produced motorcycles until after WWII". But I can still get you a pint
Were they also the first to use water injection into their engines?
