Are older bikes high maintenance? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Are older bikes high maintenance?

jonpurdy

jonpurdy

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So I'm heading to China and will soon sell my F800R. One of the things that I loved about this bike is that, like most new bikes, it just worked all the time. I never had any issues in the 25,000 km that I put on it since 2011. With regular maintenance, I would expect it to go for quite a long time.

I was thinking about a replacement for when I come back (after a year or two). I'm wondering about how reliable older (70s and 80s) bikes are (thinking Honda CB750, BMW R75, etc.). How reliable are these bikes? I'm sure it completely depends on how it was treated but is there a general answer for bikes that were properly maintained and serviced? What are the service intervals like? My F800R is 5,000 km between oil, 10K for minor service, and 20K for major service (valve adjustment), etc. Would I have to get it serviced more frequently? I'd love to dig my hands into them and do servicing myself, though I don't have much mechanical experience. I could certainly do the oil and carbs myself, but I'd leave tyres and other major work to the pros.

The thing I worry about the most is breaking down on the side of the road while touring; I wouldn't want my trip ruined because of it.

TL;DR: Do older bikes require a lot more maintenance than newer ones?
 
Yes.
 
Too many variables. Too much depends on how the bike has been treated.

Generalities:

Carbs versus EFI. Properly treated, carbs are not really a problem. Rubber stuff (intake boots, hoses, etc) hardens up, works loose, cracks, etc over time. Neglect? - big problem.

Go far enough back in time, and you will find breaker-points ignition systems. They require tinkering and adjusting. Or replacement with an electronic ignition - but that is an aftermarket component as opposed to an OEM component, and aftermarket is almost always < OEM for reliability.

Air cooling. Liquid cooling has more bits and pieces - another fluid level to deal with - etc. But liquid cooling allows engines to be built with tighter internal tolerances. Liquid cooled engines - in general - last longer.

Tire sizes and availability. Your F800R uses modern rim and tire sizes. 1970's bikes ... don't.

Valve and valve seat materials. Valves don't sink into their seats like they used to. In the old days, you had to do valve clearances every few thousand kilometers. Old bike nowadays ... you'll still have to do that.

Parts availability ... ! ! !

On the other hand ... swapping spark plugs and doing valve clearances on a CB750 should be an easy job. On a modern supersport bike, this could be an 8 hour job.

And there may be a sweet spot in between the era of air cooling and breaker points, and what we have today. I have a 1990 Yamaha FZR400 that used to be someone else's race bike. I've done pretty much nothing over the last 12 years and 40,000 km other than oil changes and spark plugs ... until a hardened-up rubber hose between the rear shock and its remote reservoir blew at Deals Gap this spring.
 
Generally, yes. Comparatively ...anything from Japan as old as 70s is far better than anything from europe (my opinion only).
BMW boxer could be an exception, but for given year, expect it to have an appetite of a hatchback.

In your particular situation, buying a vintage or classics and refitting it with new parts for long-range touring will cost you a new bike (all bearings, all seals, carbs, cables, brakes, battery +possibly starter and fork refreshment and reseal)

cheers
 
Sounds like I'd be better off buying a newer but cheaper maintenance bike than my current one then. I wish Honda would bring the new CB400SF here; I find that the styling on the new CB500F is too aggressive for its size.

Thanks for the input, everyone. (I do have a very long time before I have to decide anything, haha.)
 
If you're going to China, when you get there buy a bike that is, in price, half way between the cheapest bike you can find and a Lifan.
That will put you into mid seventies technology so if you can make that work....
 
So I have a timely older-bike story to tell.

Another forum member (maybe he'll chip in) had an issue with his 1992-ish Yamaha FZR250. Mechanically, it is like my FZR400's little brother - very similar in design and arrangement. This past winter, he just went through the engine and freshened it up (while parts are still available).

Ever since he got the bike - pre-dating the engine rebuild - it has always run strangely at part load and used a lot of fuel. It would occasionally backfire with an enormous cloud of black smoke on a track day.

Now, this spring ... no start. "Fuel leaking out of the carbs." (With the carbs on the engine?)

Today's chore; find out why. It was noted that the fuel pump (a "clicker" type) would never stop running. It should stop when the float bowls are full. Hmmm ...

Then the engine hydro-locked on a cranking attempt. Hmmm!

Off come the carbs. We set them on a bench next to the bike and pressurized them with fuel from the bike's own fuel pump (this is the step that was omitted the last time the carbs were investigated on that bike). Lo and behold, fuel started oozing from every possible escape route on all four carbs. No apparent dirt in the fuel.

With a float bowl removed, it appears that the O-ring that seals the float valve into its little recess in each carb is all hardened up and not sealing properly. The float valves themselves seem to be working OK. We are quite sure that this has been something of an issue all along, but it took until this spring for the O-rings to harden up enough to cause a no-start (with our ethanol-containing gasoline).

Next step is to order a set of Viton O-rings to hopefully fix this issue for good.
 
Thanks for the story. I can imagine getting to the point of doing that myself after a lot of practice and time working on an older bike. Though when I get back I might not even have access to a garage to do work in.
 
I love and trust 80's/90's bikes.....I wouldn't hesitate to ride a well maintained 80's or 90's bike anywhere.
I prefer the "feel" of a carbed bike to most fuel injected bikes I have tried. I have only found one fuel injected bike that can rival the smoothness of a carbed one.
 
Brian P said:
Next step is to order a set of Viton O-rings to hopefully fix this issue for good.
Click to expand...

Where can you buy those o-rings ? Had a bike doing the same thing, turned out to be bad float needles. Ordered a new set of needles and float seats - but now the o-rings do not seem to be holding those brass seats in place.
 
Older bikes are like older women. They are pretty set in their ways, and leak a lot.
 
frekeyguy said:
Where can you buy those o-rings ? Had a bike doing the same thing, turned out to be bad float needles. Ordered a new set of needles and float seats - but now the o-rings do not seem to be holding those brass seats in place.
Click to expand...

Industrial supply shop. Acklands-Grainger, McMaster-Carr, etc. Only question at the moment is where they can be gotten from without paying a big minimum order quantity. I know Acklands-Grainger's official price for the O-ring in question is 4 cents each, sold in a package of 30, which will not break the bank, but we don't know what the minimum order quantity is for a customer walking in off the street.

Don't use rubber, Buna-N, or EPDM (translation: don't just buy any O-ring at Canadian Tire). Gasoline (and ethanol) will attack all of those. Viton is the only readily-available O-ring material that has a fighting chance of resisting gasoline containing ethanol.
 
Brian P said:
Industrial supply shop. Acklands-Grainger, McMaster-Carr, etc. Only question at the moment is where they can be gotten from without paying a big minimum order quantity. I know Acklands-Grainger's official price for the O-ring in question is 4 cents each, sold in a package of 30, which will not break the bank, but we don't know what the minimum order quantity is for a customer walking in off the street.

Don't use rubber, Buna-N, or EPDM (translation: don't just buy any O-ring at Canadian Tire). Gasoline (and ethanol) will attack all of those. Viton is the only readily-available O-ring material that has a fighting chance of resisting gasoline containing ethanol.
Click to expand...

The PO min is my concern as well, I don't mind paying a $25 min to buy a handful of viton o-ring. I'll look around...thanks for the lead on acklands-grianger.
 
Hmm, I've got a 1975 Z1B Kawasaki, i would'nt say it was high maintanance although i do change the oil and filter more often than i do on my sports bike. I swapped the ignition/ points system for a Dyna S kit so that eliminates any work down there. And i never go out in the rain in it(so being in England that reduces the mileage somewhat.! ha ha) Although any parts i do have to replace do cost a fortune, it seems that having one of these bikes high prices for parts are the norm. I did have a CB750, did same things as above but parts are not as expensive.

To be honest the pleasure i get out of riding the Kwak outweights any extra maintanance or costs.



Paul
 
I guess what I'm trying to avoid is a high cost per km travelled. I do far too many km in a year. I was thinking of an older bike because I could maintain it myself, or at least try to. But I guess there's still a good chance of me not being able to fix it and having to pay lots of money anyway.
 
As my only ride is a 1969 Cb350, the simple and safest answer is hells yes.

My bike is in great condition, but being old as people mention, gaskets and seals eventually fail or form cracks, points need to be adjusted, valve clearances checked, and electrical can be finicky.

However, I bought this bike 8 years ago with zero mechanical knowledge and have and since then I've become very familiar with the concepts and my bike, having had to take it apart to fix the kick start and numerous leaks and failures here and there. I certainly have a love hate relationship with her.

However, with that said, South-east Asia is my second home, and although its not the same as china, I'd assume that finding a shop that can repair basically anything (in developing countries and maybe china) is like finding a 7-11. Labour is cheap too (assumption).

But yes, expect break downs, and if you're daily life depends on this bike always running, I'd rethink. As fun as old bikes are to ride and wrench, having a busted gasket on a long weekend is a stabbing pain, at least here in the GTA where online orders are sometimes the only choice (but I can usually end up finding everything I need, especially Honda CB's as they've become trendy)
 
^ Was that you with your bike at the Forks on Monday? Description sounds consistent - and if so - Very nice. I had the rattiest bike there ... my FZR400 street bike, which is basically a spare for my racebike. Don't care what it looks like as long as it works right.
 
jonpurdy said:
I guess what I'm trying to avoid is a high cost per km travelled. I do far too many km in a year.
Click to expand...

Honestly, if you are going to put high mileage on a bike, something late nineties and up with liquid cooling is the most likely to go another couple hundred thousand kilometers with nothing but oil changes, tires, chains, and the occasional set of spark plugs and valve clearance checks.

Modern materials, modern electronics, modern electrical connectors (which have much, much better sealing against water intrusion!), plus the tighter tolerances associated with liquid cooling, add up to a huge difference.
 
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