Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 182 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

They are not hard to nail down. If you live in Clarington, look here: Residential Electricity Rates - Veridian Connections

We aren't on Veridian, we're on Hydro One...but regardless, the variable part that is indeed hard to narrow down is the delivery charge. It's not a flat rate. People who use very little electricity can often pay more in delivery than the actual amount of electricity they consumed - no shortage of stories of outrage on this topic.

But good luck narrowing it down since it seems to use some mystery algorithm that only they understand - I dare you to try looking at your bills, or mine (with dramatically higher usage vs non EV owners), and making sense of it.

Ours was $61 on a $170 bill this month (35%). On a $220 bill in February it was only $10 more, 32%. One of the lowest bills I could find, looking back through the MyAccount portal on Hydro One was $136 and the fee was still $51, or 37%.

Lastly, a portion of that delivery fee is fixed, so my argument stands - we are paying that regardless of owning an EV or not simply to provide power to our house.

If I used your logic on my gasoline costs, I'd be using about 85cents per litre today.

I see your argument and I understand it, but you have to consider mine as well.

Either way, no matter how you look at it, I trust we all see that the savings are not insignificant. If we go your way and say $2.42, we still saved close to $10 in a single day vs a shitbox Prius.

Your Cruze, averaging around 7L/100KM (As per the overall average across fuelly.com) would have cost $18.20 in gas, we would have saved $15.78 that day.

And in the end... I have the satisfaction of knowing that I'm not sending my money to any sleazy oil conglomerations. You know, the ones we all like to ***** and complain about for mysteriously jacking prices every long weekend, rarely passing oil cost savings onto consumers, and sending prices shooting through the roof at the mere rumour of a refinery problem, even when it's just overblown.
 
Anyhow, on the topic of the Ioniq.

I finally got the ownership switched over and the plates from the Volt moved as well. The Quebec purchase did complicate things a little and instead of 10 minutes doing the paperwork at Service Ontario it took about 20, but no complaints in the grand scheme of things.

We did some decent mileage yesterday as well...a trip into Toronto for a few things with a stop at Ikea. One thing I've noticed personally is that I'm driving the Ioniq differently than I would be driving my Volt - just knowing that all those extra Kilowatts are at my disposal, when I know we are in a situation where we aren't even close to needing to maximize our range, driving a little more "sporty" than I would otherwise seems to be creeping in. When we are trying to maximize range however it's easy to do.

I got back to Ikea to pickup the fam (I did the Service Ontario stuff while they were shopping) with about 50% battery left. A 9 minute hit on their free L3 chargers (yay, 13kW of free electricity!) had us back to 90% SOC and on our way with just enough time for me to grab a few hotdogs while waiting.
 
We aren't on Veridian, we're on Hydro One...but regardless, the variable part that is indeed hard to narrow down is the delivery charge. It's not a flat rate. People who use very little electricity can often pay more in delivery than the actual amount of electricity they consumed - no shortage of stories of outrage on this topic.

But good luck narrowing it down since it seems to use some mystery algorithm that only they understand - I dare you to try looking at your bills, or mine (with dramatically higher usage vs non EV owners), and making sense of it. ...
Had good luck. Took all of 5 minutes to figure it out: Hydro One
KWH (¢/kWh - metered) KWH 6.400
Distribution Volume Charge (¢/kWh - metered) KWH 2.300
Transmission Connection Charge(¢/kWh - metered) KWH 0.470
Transmission Network Charge (¢/kWh - metered) KWH 0.640
Rural Rate Protection Charge (¢/kWh - adjusted) KWH 0.050
IESO Wholesale Market Svc(¢/kWh - metered) KWH 0.300
Adjustment Factor 1.08% 0.008
Subtotal 10.168
HST 5% 0.508
Total cost per (¢/kWh - metered portion) 10.676

I see your argument and I understand it, but you have to consider mine as well.

Either way, no matter how you look at it, I trust we all see that the savings are not insignificant. If we go your way and say $2.42, we still saved close to $10 in a single day vs a shitbox Prius.

Your Cruze, averaging around 7L/100KM (As per the overall average across fuelly.com) would have cost $18.20 in gas, we would have saved $15.78 that day.

And in the end... I have the satisfaction of knowing that I'm not sending my money to any sleazy oil conglomerations. You know, the ones we all like to ***** and complain about for mysteriously jacking prices every long weekend, rarely passing oil cost savings onto consumers, and sending prices shooting through the roof at the mere rumour of a refinery problem, even when it's just overblown.
Yes, the energy costs are significant and there are great ways to save driving electric vehicles. There are also real costs to consider, my beef is that EV owners tend to way underestimate their actual costs. It's convenient to forget 40% of the cost of fuel, high depreciation and finance costs but does that really serve anyone who is seriously evaluating an EV purchase? I think not, understating and omitting details simply undermines an argument's credibility when the full details surface.

Just tell the whole truth about the costs and if you have any exceptional tips for good buying (that part of your story I enjoyed) or economical operation.
 
Had good luck. Took all of 5 minutes to figure it out: Hydro One
KWH (¢/kWh - metered) KWH 6.400
Distribution Volume Charge (¢/kWh - metered) KWH 2.300
Transmission Connection Charge(¢/kWh - metered) KWH 0.470
Transmission Network Charge (¢/kWh - metered) KWH 0.640
Rural Rate Protection Charge (¢/kWh - adjusted) KWH 0.050
IESO Wholesale Market Svc(¢/kWh - metered) KWH 0.300
Adjustment Factor 1.08% 0.008
Subtotal 10.168
HST 5% 0.508
Total cost per (¢/kWh - metered portion) 10.676

Yes, the energy costs are significant and there are great ways to save driving electric vehicles. There are also real costs to consider, my beef is that EV owners tend to way underestimate their actual costs. It's convenient to forget 40% of the cost of fuel, high depreciation and finance costs but does that really serve anyone who is seriously evaluating an EV purchase? I think not, understating and omitting details simply undermines an argument's credibility when the full details surface.

Just tell the whole truth about the costs and if you have any exceptional tips for good buying (that part of your story I enjoyed) or economical operation.

There’s nothing wrong with being a skeptic, in general I whole heatedly agree with being skeptical of everything and everyone.

However, when faced with counter points that highlight the benefits of EV driving under certain use cases you don’t acknowledge them. Further, some of the numbers you’ve shared are pretty accurate, while others are not.

For the sake of a rational discussion it’s unreasonable to expect others to be purely objective and revisit their own evaluations and opinions if you’re not also going to do so.
 
There’s nothing wrong with being a skeptic, in general I whole heatedly agree with being skeptical of everything and everyone.

However, when faced with counter points that highlight the benefits of EV driving under certain use cases you don’t acknowledge them. Further, some of the numbers you’ve shared are pretty accurate, while others are not.

For the sake of a rational discussion it’s unreasonable to expect others to be purely objective and revisit their own evaluations and opinions if you’re not also going to do so.
I don't think there is a need to acknowledge points if they are correct. When the facts are substantially different than what other users and groups of user report, I think the value comes from the presenter explaining how they achieved the different result. Yoy have to admit that it's a little supect to see operating cost evidence presented with a statistical sample of a single 30km trip. I once hi-miled my Cruze 200km from on less than 6l of fuel -- I'd never present that single trip as evidence I get double the mileage of the hundreds of Fuelly users, I report the average over thousands of KM and dozens of fillups. That was my point in the round of questioning with respect to Volt mileage -- it was so different than what hundreds of Volt users reported that it needed an explanation.
 
Yoy have to admit that it's a little supect to see operating cost evidence presented with a statistical sample of a single 30km trip. I once hi-miled my Cruze 200km from on less than 6l of fuel -- I'd never present that single trip as evidence I get double the mileage of the hundreds of Fuelly users, I report the average over thousands of KM and dozens of fillups. That was my point in the round of questioning with respect to Volt mileage -- it was so different than what hundreds of Volt users reported that it needed an explanation.

I assume you are referencing my single 30km trip which I posted about. That was posted just to give you an idea / explanation / proof of what the Volt can do after you didn't believe the 1 year figures.
I didn't base my figures off the single trip but off a years worth (~25000 km) of driving. I don't think that compares to a single 30km trip at all. Anyways if that 1 year of data wasn't enough and that 30km trip wasn't enough here's another 100+km trip from Sunday of which 65km was hwy and the rest city.
40143
Also my 1 year calculations all used 12c/kWh and you just provided us with the 10.6c/kWh calculation so it seems it actually cost me less than I thought.
 
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I assume you are referencing my single 30km trip which I posted about. That was posted just to give you an idea / explanation / proof of what the Volt can do after you didn't believe the 1 year figures.
I didn't base my figures off the single trip but off a years worth (~25000 km) of driving. I don't think that compares to a single 30km trip at all. Anyways if that 1 year of data wasn't enough and that 30km trip wasn't enough here's another 100+km trip from Sunday of which 65km was hwy and the rest city.
View attachment 40143
Also my 1 year calculations all used 12c/kWh and you just provided us with the 10.6c/kWh calculation so it seems it actually cost me less than I thought.
You're doing great, you should tell us more about how you get these great results. The control sample I used to compare is the Canadian Volt user group which includes 400 or so reporting users. Volt Stats: CANADIAN VOLT. (cols 1-3 are supplied data, the rest computed).

That group are average considerably less - you have to see how the consistent month over month average of a 400 sample group might stoke ones curiosity. I don't own a Volt, all I have is the Internet to research facts. I somewhat trust sites like Fuelly and Voltstats as they statistically significant samples.

MonthVehiclesMPGeKWH/100MilesKWH/MileKW/KMKM/KWH
May-19​
134​
75.27​
44.77​
0.45​
0.27​
3.72​
Apr-19​
135​
69.44​
48.53​
0.49​
0.29​
3.43​
Mar-19​
135​
63.12​
53.39​
0.53​
0.32​
3.12​
Feb-19​
134​
54.66​
61.65​
0.62​
0.37​
2.70​
Jan-19​
136​
54.22​
62.15​
0.62​
0.37​
2.68​
Dec-18​
137​
60.92​
55.32​
0.55​
0.33​
3.01​
Nov-18​
135​
65.12​
51.75​
0.52​
0.31​
3.22​
Oct-18​
132​
72.99​
46.17​
0.46​
0.28​
3.61​
Sep-18​
132​
73.20​
46.04​
0.46​
0.28​
3.62​
Aug-18​
129​
73.52​
45.84​
0.46​
0.28​
3.64​
Jul-18​
129​
75.25​
44.78​
0.45​
0.27​
3.72​

As for your exact cost of power, that will depend on your contract and utility -- they are all different.
 
Go back and read my earlier post about OnStar and look at the screenshot I posted.

I’m on VoltStats, and up until we sold the car, my wife’s Volt updated there daily.

The fact it draws 100% or its data from OnStar (there’s absolutely nothing user provided, its all entirely automated) means that much of that data is horribly skewed by people like us who constantly received batshit crazy telemetrics data from OnStar. And we are not alone - OnStar telemetrics is a total gong show for many, us included. My data alone would have put an planetary sized bell curve in the data of every other Canadian VoltStats group member.

OnStar is aware of the issue and doesn’t care. Again, it’s a gong show, and their replies were always “we do not support third party websites”, even through its nothing to do with the third party website or support thereof, it’s 100% to do with the fact their systems are horribly broken.

Really, the only thing we used it for (and was reliable) is the percentage of gas to electric figures and daily mileage driven.

Accordingly, VoltStats is NOT a reliable place to draw data from.
 
He's right, check out my OnStar stats, there are a lot of months that are out of whack. Voltstats links to this data and uses it, it is not 100% correct by any means.
Feb 2019 48L/100km LOL
40144
Dec 2018 200 "Gas KM" but Fuel Economy and Fuel Saved is -- indicating no fuel was used....
40146
Jun 2018 Guess I didn't use my car at all for a month?
40145
 
My last ONStar email claims a stellar 332L/100kms

I was looking back through old emails a few nights ago on the topic and found one it said we were over 1000L/100KM.

Apparently our Volt was being used as a CN Locomotive for a few days that month.

3 cases in point on why OnStar / Voltstats isn’t to be used as valid info.

Believe what people are posting here. It’s real world, being posted by actual owners. You’re even getting shots of the actual display screens in the vehicles (probably hundreds of which I’ve posted myself in this thread over the years, but plenty of more more recent ones by others) to prove the claims.
 
I was looking back through old emails a few nights ago on the topic and found one it said we were over 1000L/100KM.

Apparently our Volt was being used as a CN Locomotive for a few days that month.

3 cases in point on why OnStar / Voltstats isn’t to be used as valid info.

Believe what people are posting here. It’s real world, being posted by actual owners. You’re even getting shots of the actual display screens in the vehicles (probably hundreds of which I’ve posted myself in this thread over the years, but plenty of more more recent ones by others) to prove the claims.
Based on this thread and the HOV one i suspect Mike is a fellow Taurus.
 
Not far behind the bull it seems :geek:

Scorpio is a fixed water sign. Fixed means just that. The Scorpio Sun person spends a lot of effort and time coming to his point of view on a subject. Once he has reached that view he considers it to be the best possible view on the subject. He doesn't see any reason to change that view. He knows he is right.

Are Scorpios stubborn? - Quora
 
I started logging our weekly consumption on the Ioniq yesterday morning, so I should be able to get a good summary by the end of the week. I meant to start Monday but I forgot to reset the trip odometer.

It’s amazing so far - hovering around 11.5kwh/100KM per the in car display at least. This car is slippery - the difference between it and my Volt when coasting is amazing - the Ioniq sometimes feels like you’re still stepping on the accelerator pedal when you’re actually just coasting with zero regen. It’s known as the most efficient EV out there right now, and I’m starting to understand why.

Between my wife’s commute plus some running around last night the car had around 130KM put on it yesterday. Arrived home with 97KM still showing on the GOM.
 

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