$6400 Owner's Manual?

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Buce

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I think this has been brought up before but would like some feedback, experience, advice. Looking at purchasing a used bike from private seller. Was thinking of pulling the old stunt: $100 bike price and $6400 owner's manual(for a $6500 bike), so as to pay barely any HST at MTO registration. The government already got its share the first time the bike was purchased new. If both myself and seller agree to these terms, are there any repercussions that can come about? How likely is it that they will question it?
Hoping that those who have done it in past will chime in with their advice.
 
Buce said:
I think this has been brought up before but would like some feedback, experience, advice. Looking at purchasing a used bike from private seller. Was thinking of pulling the old stunt: $100 bike price and $6400 owner's manual(for a $6500 bike), so as to pay barely any HST at MTO registration. The government already got its share the first time the bike was purchased new. If both myself and seller agree to these terms, are there any repercussions that can come about? How likely is it that they will question it?
Hoping that those who have done it in past will chime in with their advice.
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What if the gov't wants a cut from the manual?
 
Motorcycles do not have a declared book value. Declare it to for what ever value you would like....
 
RockerGuy said:
What if the gov't wants a cut from the manual?
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yeah, exactly... like what do you envision happening? You walk up with a $100 bill of sale, and when the MTO agent looks at you with a raised eyebrow, you just blurt out "OH YEAH, I BOUGHT THE MANUAL FOR 6400 THOUGH!!! There was no where on the bill of sale for the bike's manual's value."
 
I did $500. I just made sure the seller knew the terms. I even texted him when my form came in the mail.

I've done this twice
 
I did this and I'll tell you my story and what I think is the best way to avoid the HST.

I picked up my VFR 800 for $8000, seller and I agreed that we'd write $4000 on the bill of sale when we show it to the ministry because they do ask the purchase price.

However, since a 2006 with 5,500 km selling for $4000 isn't believable, I didn't get it plated the first time. I went to the ministry, said the bike was damaged and unfit for the road so I need to do some work but want to transfer the name. No issues there.

About a week later, I went back with my safety and got it plated.

About three weeks later, I got a letter in the mail from the ministry asking me to reply to this letter in writing stating the value of the bike that I paid for it. I asked the seller and he said he got one too but his said just to ignore it if the price was correct.

I ignored mine and about two weeks later I got another one. I ignored that one too and I think a third one came (ignored too) and never heard anything again. I also didn't lie to my insurance broker and told them I paid $8000 for it.

All in all, I saved $500.
 
SweetOnion said:
yeah, exactly... like what do you envision happening? You walk up with a $100 bill of sale, and when the MTO agent looks at you with a raised eyebrow, you just blurt out "OH YEAH, I BOUGHT THE MANUAL FOR 6400 THOUGH!!! There was no where on the bill of sale for the bike's manual's value."
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So are you saying the gov't can demand the HST for the manual? Anyhow, i don't see how there can be an issue if both buyer and seller agree to purchase price, no matter what the gov't thinks a fair price is.
 
No blue book value to bikes in Ontario. You will only get caught if the two parties stories don't match up
 
If i'm not mistaken, anything not considered a "gift" is subject to tax. There are many conditions for sending someone a "gift". You are trying to getaway with something illegal... I wouldn't start threads about it. Do a search, read all the advice/answers... proceed with the level risk you are willing to take.

If you get singled out, you will be made an example - Trust me on that one.
 
daisoman said:
No blue book value to bikes in Ontario. You will only get caught if the two parties stories don't match up
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That's what i thought. No reason for seller not to agree to lower-value claim either, i imagine. In other words, he can't get into trouble with gov't for doing this, right?
 
Buce said:
So are you saying the gov't can demand the HST for the manual? Anyhow, i don't see how there can be an issue if both buyer and seller agree to purchase price, no matter what the gov't thinks a fair price is.
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No, what I am saying is that if you walk into the MTO with a Bill of Sale for a Motorcycle, they don't give a **** what you bought the manual for.Your bill of sale will say $100 on it. What does it matter if you have some lame b/s story prepared about buying the manual?MTO is responsible for collecting taxes on vehicles, not on sales of personal goods. You could say you bought his prized Ant Farm for $6400. Do you think the lady behind the counter will care?
 
I registerred my 07 GSXR 600 for $1. Yes, one dollar. The clerk said to me "Did you mean to write $100?" I said NO, One dollar. I paid 13 cents tax on it. My previous bike, 2003 SV650s was registered at $100.

As long as the buyer and the seller are on the same page, it's all good. In my case the seller was a friend of mine.
 
Skyler said:
If i'm not mistaken, anything not considered a "gift" is subject to tax. There are many conditions for sending someone a "gift". You are trying to getaway with something illegal... I wouldn't start threads about it. Do a search, read all the advice/answers... proceed with the level risk you are willing to take.

If you get singled out, you will be made an example - Trust me on that one.
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Yes, you are correct about that. I have decided to forgo attempting to pay less taxes to the Government of Canada. How stupid of me to even think about it. I didn't realize it was a criminal offense and will be sure to declare the true value of sale terms on the bill of sale and register it as such. Thank you for setting me straight. If any official with the government is reading this, you can rest assured that i will be honest and truthful about the sale terms.
 
sigh... Where do you guys get this garbage.

There is no HST on used items...
its a value added tax.. understand that term.

The tax on used bikes is not HST. Its a different 13 % tax. (that is meant to emulate the HST's rate)
 
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Buce said:
Yes, you are correct about that. I have decided to forgo attempting to pay less taxes to the Government of Canada. How stupid of me to even think about it. I didn't realize it was a criminal offense and will be sure to declare the true value of sale terms on the bill of sale and register it as such. Thank you for setting me straight. If any official with the government is reading this, you can rest assured that i will be honest and truthful about the sale terms.
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It's great that you've come to your senses. Had you gone ahead with defrauding the government of Canada with tax revenue, I'm afraid they would've called in the Army, navy, and also Chuck Norris. You would have been jailed for multiple life sentences and then eventually buried in a tomb next to Hitler.
 
Buce said:
Yes, you are correct about that. I have decided to forgo attempting to pay less taxes to the Government of Canada. How stupid of me to even think about it. I didn't realize it was a criminal offense and will be sure to declare the true value of sale terms on the bill of sale and register it as such. Thank you for setting me straight. If any official with the government is reading this, you can rest assured that i will be honest and truthful about the sale terms.
Click to expand...

Funny, but just so you know, the tax court of Canada has explictly stated that it is the right of citizens to structure their affairs in the way that results in the least amount of tax payable.
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