2021 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!) | Page 22 | GTAMotorcycle.com

2021 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!)

Winales_2017

Well-known member
I love to watch Marc wrestle with, and continually test the limits of that beast of a bike that Honda has given him but it pains me to think that he's sacrificing his body the way he is. His drive and determination is undeniable but I have to believe his career will come to an end soon at a very young age and he'll live out the rest of his life in continual pain.
Same, it's what makes him my favorite rider in all of motorsports, you could tell the 'all in mentality' was eventually going to catch up over the years but it was amazing to watch when he was healthy. I actually think it will take time but he will recover, I doubt he will be able to dominate in that 2019 fashion ever again since the talent is more competitive. But I think he is proving to himself and anyone watching how and why he got to where he was and coming to terms with his mortality before our eyes, that means he will fall, stumble along the way on that path to recovery but its remarkable to see it.

It's hard to say how bad that Honda is, it's clearly lacking in front mechanical grip, and how much it's Marc unable to ride around the bike the way he always could before. I look forward to this resurgence as much, if not more, than his 2019 domination because he needs to re-invent himself and the way he rides which we all knew would catch up with him since the competition never would.

JLO's interview on Dorna and the segment on Saturday echos what I think, too: he is the most talented rider technically, physically by an immense margin, so while the recovery is taking longer than anyone expected it's a matter of 'when' not 'if' he will be at the top again.

Also worth noting this came out by Honda the year Marc and HRC were dominating the year before his accident:


I see him trying that (look at what arm that prosthetic is on below) way before he decides to quit given who he is, if I'm entirely honest.
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Chaos

Well-known member
Good finish today. Bagnaia was running out of tire and Quartararo would have probably passed him if there were one more lap - must take a lot of nerve to ride that defensively disciplined.

Likely too late for the championship, but Bagnaia's performance this season will make him a contender next season.

Big result for Bastianini and Avintia. First podium for both (I think for Avintia - maybe there was another)

Brutal finish for VR and all the other Yamahas for that matter. I wonder if he had checked out at this point.
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
Rins, what can one say. He's the new Crashlow.
I think he has lost confidence in himself entirely since Mir won last year, he used to be the darling of Suzuki ever since Ianone kept messing around and got the boot. His riding style is super odd, but it matches the bike well, it's not like he is pushing to the absolute limit since the Suzuki is very forgiving on the tires and usually allows for Mir to take advantage of that at the end of the race.

I think it's likely all mental for Rins, much like Maverick, so he may need to try a new outfit if he keeps throwing away good results. Possibly jump on a Yamaha when it's free since nothing is as forgiving as the Suzuki and it could reward him and his riding style since it's very Lorenzo-esque.

Solid race today, The battle for P4 was the real fight today, so much drama between all those riders up until the last lap that I wished they had kept the camera on that instead of P1-2. Marc and Mir rivalry is shaping out nicely on track. Ennea is starting to come alive on that old Ducati on a tracck he is probably really familiar with so hopefully he qualifies better when they come back next month.

Mav's starts are still as disappointing as they were at Yamaha; it cost him so many places/points despite a decent qualy. He finished ok, lower than he qualified but he needs to work on that closely with Aprillia engineers since it is one of his many Achilles' heel.
 

Priller

Well-known member
Good finish today. Bagnaia was running out of tire and Quartararo would have probably passed him if there were one more lap - must take a lot of nerve to ride that defensively disciplined.

Likely too late for the championship, but Bagnaia's performance this season will make him a contender next season.
I really like Bagnaia despite the Rossi connections. He's a bit unusual for a racer, very soft-spoken and gentle, and based on the volume of people who suddenly appear to congratulate him after his wins, very popular in the paddock. I was worried that he just didn't have the edge to win races, but he has now won two under challenging circumstances very convincingly. Holding off a pressing Marquez in one, and managing a big lead in another, he has shown a lot of maturity.

I'm not convinced Quartararo would have just blown by like he did Miller, as Bagnaia showed his defensive racecraft well in the previous round. Would've been fun to see, though, as I think those two will have many battles for the win over the next few years.

Big result for Bastianini and Avintia. First podium for both (I think for Avintia - maybe there was another)
Bestia showed why Ducati have such big plans for him. Wouldn't be surprised to see him take Miller's seat in 2023. Ultimate home field advantage, though, so he has some work to do at less familiar tracks...

Brutal finish for VR and all the other Yamahas for that matter. I wonder if he had checked out at this point.
Rossi has dropped even further since his retirement announcement, now consistently down towards the bottom of the order. I think we're officially in 'farewell tour' mode now. The other two can't be judged yet, as Morbido is coming off injury and is now on a different bike, and Dovi hasn't raced competitively in ages. Still, no pleasant surprises, either. It's been such a weird year for Yamaha, bad news everywhere they turn, all except for Quartararo looking like the next Lorenzo (minus the relentless self-promotion)...

Even weirder is KTM, who look lost at some tracks, and often mirroring the non-Marc Honda riders. Oliviera has been nowhere since briefly looking like a title contender before the summer break, and Binder picking up 5-10 places in the race is not much use if you start in 16th or wherever he was. Still lots to do with that bike to fight for a championship, evidently, though the same could be said for Honda...

Mav's starts are still as disappointing as they were at Yamaha; it cost him so many places/points despite a decent qualy. He finished ok, lower than he qualified but he needs to work on that closely with Aprillia engineers since it is one of his many Achilles' heel.
Maybe they can send him to a drag strip to just launch bikes for the winter. That and working with Fabio's sports psychologist would seem to be the priorities for him.

Still, Vinales did okay, I thought. He's gone from back of the whole pack to back of the mid-pack, and it looked like he stuck with Zarco most of the way. If you look at Morbidelli, Crutchlow and Dovizioso for where the benchmark is on riders jumping onto new bikes, he's doing amazingly well. I sincerely hope they tune out any external pressure to finish higher and just focus on using the races as development track time for the 2022 bike. Aleix is doing just fine on his own, so it's not like they desperately need the results this year. Building for next year and fighting for wins in 2022 should be the goal.
 

Chaos

Well-known member
I agree that Ducati have plans for Bastianini, but I think they also have plans for Bagnaia and Martin.

I think right now the plan is to ultimately get Martin into the factory seat and Bastianini onto Pramac. Miller probably goes back to Pramac if he accepts it. Zarco becomes the odd man out - he is the only non-race winner of the current Ducati/Pramac lineup.
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
Maybe they can send him to a drag strip to just launch bikes for the winter. That and working with Fabio's sports psychologist would seem to be the priorities for him.
Maybe, but he lived in Qatar for a while when he was at Yamaha so you'd have to say it's not a lack of experience so much as it is a psychological thing at this point; yeah, he needs to have a word with Fabio's guy because he was the same way when he joined GP: after throwing enough tantrums and potentially a championship he realized you can't win more than a few races processing and behaving that way.

I want see him do well at Aprilia, and so far things have gone relatively well I just hope he can have the perspective to work on the mental side of things in more depth because he has so much lost potential.
 

Chaos

Well-known member
Nicolo Bulega is going to World Supersport next year. Based on his results, it's not surprising, but considering he was touted to be something great as part of the VR46 riders academy, it is sad to see.
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
Provisional 2022 Calendar is scheduled for 22 Rounds!


Dorna telling COTA that they won't comeback in 22' if they don't at least re-surface part of the track:


The chattering and overall instability looked like a handful all weekend, which is why I hink it was remarkable to see Marc find a way to be on the top, but it's also worth noting that Bruno got scrapped because of this and Silverstone had to do it as well due to drainiage issues so I think it has to be taken serious as ride safety was simply not.
 

Chaos

Well-known member
While I don't deny Dorna's threat as serious, it will be F1 that will force (or not) COTA's hand.
 

Priller

Well-known member
Apparently they built COTA over a chalk seam, so it will always and forever be bumpy. Resurfacing will help for a year or two, but subsidence is inevitable. The problem is there's nowhere else to go in North America. Laguna Seca is a shadow of its former self, neglected and killed by NIMBYism. Indy has its own issues, has a dull layout and feels empty even if 100,000 people show up. Not sure what the facilities are like in Utah, but it's not central to much, so would have to rely heavily on fly-in attendance. Dorna is desperate to maintain a presence in the US (the fact that they went to Austin this year is proof of that), but they don't have a lot of options...

As for the race, weirdly and despite ultimately putting the championship firmly in Quartararo's grasp, I was as impressed with Bagnaia as anyone there. He faded early and could have coasted, but he worked hard and brought it back. Marquez isn't done yet, so here's hoping 2022 is 98% of his former self. Could see him and Quartararo having a few good years of fighting, a bit like Rossi and Lorenzo (except on different bikes).

Terrible weekend for Aprilia, with Aleix unable to find a setting that worked with the bumps.

Lastly, WTF KTM? Looked like title challengers before the break, now they're nowhere to be seen. Take away the fluke win in Austria and it's been a total disaster for them...
 

Chaos

Well-known member
I've heard conflicting info on COTA. Some sources suggest it's a nature of the ground which causes the bumps - others suggest that they basically cheaped out on the asphalt. Either way, MotoGP and COTA each have a decision to make.

Selfishly speaking, I'd be ok with them returning to Indy. Yes, it's not perfect, but it's still a FIM approved facility, can easily support all 3 classes, and, more importantly, it's close to home. I'd go to Indy again.
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
Very interesting chat with the BT guys on Crash.net podcast, specifically the Electrification of the GP classes.

I'm a strong advocate of EV, and my personal view is that everything else (logistics based freight/transport vehicles) should be electrified and demand the big manufactures to invest in renewable energy as part of the cost of entry in order to allow the motorcycles to remain ICE. I agree with Laverty, the sound and feel of ICE screaming cannot and will never be replaced, and since the racing is only getting better and investment and attendance continues to rise it's best to not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs in this equation and it's better to find a compromise between the two scenarios.

Kieth's view point is pretty typical and orthodox for an old rider, but his indifference is not useful and the need to reduce emmisions is something that this Industry must do remain relevant in the 21st century, because fewer and fewer in the developing World care about motorsports and the engineers that are needed to develop this technology can't just emerge from now where. It reminds me of the origin story from the kid's from Ohio State I met at Pike's Peak that made the EV motorcycle and it had sponsrship from not just Honda but Harley Davidson!

I'd like to hear more about the technology Micheal spoke of, specifically the test results from H+ based synthetic fuels and the air-capture specifically, but even if the GP bikes in all 3 classes continued to use the fossil fuels they use now it only comprises a fraction of a percent of the total energy used to keep this spectacle running so it's best to go for the glut of the source of green house gases instead of the bikes which only run for a few hours over the weekend and probably has the smallest carbon footprint when it's all broken down and accounted for. Hell, I bet just the hospitality alone has a bigger carbon footprint than the bikes, let alone all the logistics of parts, grandstands and parking facilities etc...

 
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Chaos

Well-known member
Quite the weekend....

1. Rossi's last weekend in Italy, finished with a top 10, more due to luck, but even so. He's 40 something riding against immortal 20 somethings. I believe they will give Rossi a proper ceremony at Valencia.

2. Bagnaia on his way to winning the race, but crashing out - speculation is that it was partly due to the hard front tire both he and Miller chose (who also crashed out). I really wanted him to win to at least make the balance of the season more interesting. (Ok, I am also an Italian homer)

3. Another win for Marquez. If he closes out the season with a couple of wins, he would be tied with FQ with 5. Who would have thought? He has to be a contender for next year, and you know Honda has a ton of development ready to test on their bike once the freeze is lifted.

4. Bastianini - 16th to 3rd... Great pace from him. I was hoping to see something from Marini today, but he just faded. Bastianini has clearly proved to be the much superior rider this year on the same equipment. I still think Martin is the better rider, but that gap is much narrower than I had thought it would be.

5. 1-2 for Repsol Honda. I don't remember the last time that happened.

but most significantly

Fabio Quartararo clinches the championship with 2 races to go. He has carried Yamaha all year, and he has won them a rider's title. I bet he's going to ride with the number 1 next year.
 

Lightcycle

Rounder of bolts, Dropper of tools
Site Supporter
Fabio Quartararo clinches the championship with 2 races to go. He has carried Yamaha all year, and he has won them a rider's title. I bet he's going to ride with the number 1 next year.

We'll see if the Curse of the #1 Plate continues, then.

MM93 coming into 2022 looking very strong.

Those two things may or may not be related...
 

Hardwrkr13

Well-known member
Site Supporter
MM going to be strong next season if even just for consistency as this season didn't seem to have that from anyone.
Was a good race but a shame for Ducati.
 

Chaos

Well-known member
IMO for next season, the biggest factor will be what the manufacturers bring - the freeze for this year had limited the development of the bikes. Next year we may see one manufacturer pull ahead of the others because of this.

I am very curious to see what happens at KTM. They took a step back this season.

I think Suzuki and Aprilia will also fall behind, or at least stay where they were this season. Suzuki still does not have their squatting device sorted which is part of the reason why the gap has widened. Aprilia is a concession team, but they've been allowed to develop where all others cannot. I see Aprilia falling back again next season.

We have 5 months to wait and see.
 

Priller

Well-known member
1. Rossi's last weekend in Italy, finished with a top 10, more due to luck, but even so. He's 40 something riding against immortal 20 somethings. I believe they will give Rossi a proper ceremony at Valencia.
Dorna will probably do something if Rossi is willing to participate, but I'll be curious how the Spanish fans react, considering some of the Italy vs Spain shenanigans that Rossi has been involved in. Not sure Marquez would get a glowing goodbye in Italy, either...

2. Bagnaia on his way to winning the race, but crashing out - speculation is that it was partly due to the hard front tire both he and Miller chose (who also crashed out). I really wanted him to win to at least make the balance of the season more interesting. (Ok, I am also an Italian homer)
According to Simon Crafar, the temps were dropping rather than rising, so that hard tire was definitely the wrong call. Still, when you have to win out, there's no option but to push to the limit. Turn 15 at Misano is brutal when it's cold, as that left side of the tire is out in the wind for so long. Unlike the Mugello crash, I don't think this one is on Bagnaia.

3. Another win for Marquez. If he closes out the season with a couple of wins, he would be tied with FQ with 5. Who would have thought? He has to be a contender for next year, and you know Honda has a ton of development ready to test on their bike once the freeze is lifted.
Speaking of freeze, the Honda apparently works best when it's cold out, which is why Pol's previous best round was an icy Silverstone. Still, Honda will have the most changes for 2022 if past performance is any indication, so it'll be really interesting to see what they can do. Marquez is definitely back as a title contender, though. He still crashes a lot, though, and hasn't shown the same previous ability to magic the bike off the ground.

4. Bastianini - 16th to 3rd... Great pace from him. I was hoping to see something from Marini today, but he just faded. Bastianini has clearly proved to be the much superior rider this year on the same equipment. I still think Martin is the better rider, but that gap is much narrower than I had thought it would be.
Misano is pure home field advantage for Bestia, so he'll need to perform consistently elsewhere. After his previous 3rd at Misano, Gigi crashed his party and said he should have qualified better and then could have won. Still, it's all to play for in the Ducati hierarchy...

Fabio Quartararo clinches the championship with 2 races to go. He has carried Yamaha all year, and he has won them a rider's title. I bet he's going to ride with the number 1 next year.
A thoroughly deserving champion. Found consistency when everyone else was up and down, rode within himself when things weren't going his way, minimised damage on bad weekends, and looked dominant at places nobody expected him to do well. Winning at Mugello, for example, was totally against all odds. He's found a way to pass with the Yamaha, too, which nobody else seems to be able to do. Considering his unorthodox path to a factory ride, it's very impressive. He's had a mountain of luck and perfect timing, but he's also made the most of those opportunities. And more than most riders, he's been able to go away and fix weaknesses and come back stronger.

IMO for next season, the biggest factor will be what the manufacturers bring - the freeze for this year had limited the development of the bikes. Next year we may see one manufacturer pull ahead of the others because of this.

I am very curious to see what happens at KTM. They took a step back this season.

I think Suzuki and Aprilia will also fall behind, or at least stay where they were this season. Suzuki still does not have their squatting device sorted which is part of the reason why the gap has widened. Aprilia is a concession team, but they've been allowed to develop where all others cannot. I see Aprilia falling back again next season.

We have 5 months to wait and see.

Next year is already looking very interesting, with an easy case to be made for three potential champions in Quartararo, Marquez and Bagnaia. Quartararo for obvious reasons, as he's been able to find the old Yamaha magic of smooth consistency and taking advantage of corner speed to limit losses in the straights. Marquez may be back to his old self physically, and Honda may be back to their old selves mechanically, with tires that better suit the bike or vice versa. And Bagnaia has found four straight poles, and is looking like he has worked out some consistency. Combine that with Ducati's newfound rider friendliness and old straight line speed, and it could be a killer combo.

Further down the oddsmaker's list, Morbidelli might show what he can do when healthy on a top-spec bike (finally), Miller might find more consistency, Mir and Suzuki might find more speed, and KTM might turn those big development dollars into a bike that works in a wider variety of conditions.

Vinales will also have more time on the Aprilia, and the team may continue their forward momentum. Now that they're officially a factory outfit, and seem to be able to handle ongoing development (effective ride height, decent aero, etc.), I'm hoping the slightly amateur cobbled together efforts of previous years are behind them.

Still, two more rounds to enjoy, with the team and constructor championships still to be decided. Maybe we'll even see a 16th or 17th rider on the podium...
 

thwak

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Marquez may be back to his old self physically
I don't think that this is the case at all. He still has the will and determination to test the limits every time but I fear that one good off and landing in previously injured position is going to be career ending.
 

Robbo

Well-known member
NBC is televising the last 2 races of the season. Set your PVR.

Portimao is today at 12:00pm

Valencia is next Sunday at 2:30pm

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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