2019 Renewal - Increase? Allstate? Is this a joke? | GTAMotorcycle.com

2019 Renewal - Increase? Allstate? Is this a joke?

rust0r

Well-known member
Just got my renewal in the mail this afternoon, not happy to say the least. First year anniversary with Allstate, was lured in with great rates, wondered if this would happen at renewal, I guess I have my answer.

Will be calling my agent tomorrow to see what can be done, also will be shopping around. Just wondering what the general landscape appears to be for 2019 renewals. Would love to hear from those of you with Allstate what your renewal looks like.

Home: Increase of 93% (yes, you read that right, nearly double).
Motorcycle: Increase of 20%

Auto: Decrease of 1%~

No claims, nothing has changed on my end. Same house, same vehicles, same profile.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Wow. Home doubling is surprising. I thought property insurance was relatively stable (well, rates in Onterrible don't normally go to the moon, they just keep axing coverage withour reducing premiums)
 

smergy

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Bike and auto were steady, home was up significantly in the last few years as well. I asked them to justify it. They claim its based on an increase in "home value". I said, not even close, try again. Please send me a copy of the underwriter actuarial mathematics of said 'home value' equations. I would love to review them. Crickets.
 

Iceman

Well-known member
I'm with Td, renewal came last week. Totals increase of about $20 between two bikes. I'm staying with td. I'm still just over $1100 for a versys and a gladius, both 2 mil liability, full coverage everywhere else, boosted accident benefits and a $300 deductible. I'm good with that for now.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
 

roadrash

Well-known member
This is what I'm afraid of. My first year anniversary with Allstate is also coming up in less than 2 months, and im already dreading it. Although, I am/was expecting motorcycle/auto to increase. Surprised your home did. I'm already paying more than I should be for home insurance with Allstate.

I've already started shopping around but things ain't looking good for supersports this year, unless one is motorcycle licensed for 6+ years, and (in some cases) 3+ years of continuous motorcycle insurance.

Edit: TD is coming out to be close to what I'm currently paying with Allstate (pre-renewal), so that's what I'm leaning towards at the moment. Also, planing to move bike to Wawanesa once I hit the 6 year licensed mark mid this year.

Also, try quoting your bike with Thinkinsure.ca if you've carried continuous motorcycle insurance for 3+ years and have your M license. Assuming you ride a SS.
 
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GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Bike and auto were steady, home was up significantly in the last few years as well. I asked them to justify it. They claim its based on an increase in "home value". I said, not even close, try again. Please send me a copy of the underwriter actuarial mathematics of said 'home value' equations. I would love to review them. Crickets.
I'm with you. The land price has gone nuts, but the actual construction cost has increased at a much much lower rate.
 

TK4

Well-known member
I'm with you. The land price has gone nuts, but the actual construction cost has increased at a much much lower rate.
You're not insuring the dirt just the structure - shop around (and around and around)...
 

Norcorider

Well-known member
Both me and my friend's home and auto insurance went up on renewal for 2019. We are with ThePersonal. On inquiring, agent said auto claims have trippled last year and fraudulent ones are going through the roof and everybody foots the bill.
Home insurance went up due to property values going up. My home insurance went up by 6$ per month. Auto went up by 24$ per month. Had to increase deductible and adjust yearly mileage to bring it down.
Bike insurance is up for renewal in March, and i think its going up as well.
 

sburns

Well-known member
I believe the enticing initial lower rate is a insurance tactic, and typically give you the real rate on the renewal, with the hope you won't question it and just renew. I am sure this works for them as most consumers see this as a normal rate increase.

Anyhow when I was shopping around I did call Allstate and they told me they would not insure the bike unless they had the car as well. I felt like hanging up immediately. I am sure this is just another tactic. Plus they wanted all the info up front but could not give me the the quote right away. They needed to call me back. Where as everyone else could give you the quote. Needless to say I didn't bother just seemed like non sense.

I have insurance with Mitchell & Whale who brokers for Echelon the only reasonable insurance I could get as a new rider on a HD in Scarborough. Everyone else who was close using the same insurer was pretty close in price.

It's tough to find a deal and frustrating as you are being stonewalled. Good luck!
 

rust0r

Well-known member
I'm with you. The land price has gone nuts, but the actual construction cost has increased at a much much lower rate.
You're not insuring the dirt just the structure - shop around (and around and around)...
That's just it, yes sale prices/land value has increased significantly, but replacement cost of the structure has not.

Both me and my friend's home and auto insurance went up on renewal for 2019. We are with ThePersonal. On inquiring, agent said auto claims have trippled last year and fraudulent ones are going through the roof and everybody foots the bill.
Auto claims have tripled? That sounds like quite a tale if I've ever heard one (from your agent). I find it VERY hard to believe they saw a 3 fold increase and it isn't plastered all over the news. Given that everyone here, and that I speak with in my circle has the same sentiment "you better not make a claim or your insurance is going up forever". As far as "fraudulent claims on the rise" and everyone footing the bill, if they know they are fraudulent, nothing should be paid, insurance would be cancelled and those individuals would be paying a MUCH higher rate with their next company, or facility. It would have no effect on rates. (Not bitching at you, just the agents reasoning) I know it's just one agent, but largely this is how the insurance industry operates, smoke and mirrors as to why your rate went up. "Well we can't say but it's probably because X". "There's lots of claims in your postal code". My dogs pet insurance company does the same non-sense. I think it's just the typical case of insurance feeling that rates have been relatively stable for a few years, it's time to raise rates using their pile of excuses they've built up.

It's funny, I was with Statefarm for over 10 years prior to switching to Allstate. The only reason I switched to Allstate was my SS was with TD and had zero faith in them (more below). With Statefarm, Home and Auto was the lowest of any quote I ever got. In 10 years with them I never had any surprise renewals, rates were great. They never went down, but never increased and felt they were always "about as good as you can get".


I had my bike with TD for a year and have to say their insurance downright scares me. You call and talk to what seems a foreign call center each time, there is no single agent to call. The stories vary from one person to the next, no notes are kept. They bounce you around between TD General and TDMM blaming one another. I would never go back there. Insurance is only as valuable as the company behind it at the end of the day and TD seems like it would be impossible to resolve anything with given their structure. Imagine being laid up in serious accident, waiting on accident benefits and you call only to get in touch with their call center in Madagascar ? If anyone is on the 'fence' because they will save a couple bucks with TD - DON'T DO IT!


EDIT: One thing I think is going to be a huge hit again is in 2-3 years once all the data has come back to them on this "Naked" bike craze, where new riders who would have jumped on a 600/1000SS are ending up on 100-120HP torque filled naked bikes at cheap rates. I think those riders will be in for a huge increase similar to SS saw years back, black listing, etc. It boggles my mind how bikes are blacklisted or 'favored' currently. A new rider can start out with 'reasonable' rates (sub 2K) on a 100hp naked bike like a GSX-S 750, Z800 no problem, but won't be able to find 600 SS insurance for under 6K for years and years? Zero logic from those who set policies.
 
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Trials

Well-known member
Curious, what's the premium on only the liability for your motorcycles?
and what does it say it actually does for you?
 

D-J

Well-known member
Interesting article over at driving.ca examining why insurance rates are typically highest in Ontario relative to other provinces, notably Quebec. One big factor, apparently insurance fraud has become a major problem here in Ontario. It's a system in desperate need of a reform:

"Ontarians buy their coverage from private insurers and must carry much higher third-party liability than Quebecers, but Ontario drivers who cause crashes can be sued for excess loss or pain-and-suffering, which isn’t allowed above the capped payouts in Quebec, and those high awards usually come bundled with high legal fees. The ability to sue also helps make Ontario a hotbed of insurance fraud, which runs the gamut from staged collisions, to elaborate organized-crime schemes that pad the bills at rehabilitation clinics."

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/why-is-insurance-cheap-in-quebec-yet-so-so-expensive-in-ontario

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Surnet Insurance - Paul South

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Insurance Specialist
I believe the enticing initial lower rate is a insurance tactic, and typically give you the real rate on the renewal, with the hope you won't question it and just renew. I am sure this works for them as most consumers see this as a normal rate increase.

Anyhow when I was shopping around I did call Allstate and they told me they would not insure the bike unless they had the car as well. I felt like hanging up immediately. I am sure this is just another tactic. Plus they wanted all the info up front but could not give me the the quote right away. They needed to call me back. Where as everyone else could give you the quote. Needless to say I didn't bother just seemed like non sense.

I have insurance with Mitchell & Whale who brokers for Echelon the only reasonable insurance I could get as a new rider on a HD in Scarborough. Everyone else who was close using the same insurer was pretty close in price.

It's tough to find a deal and frustrating as you are being stonewalled. Good luck!
FYI... Echelon was bought out by CAA Insurance https://www.canadianunderwriter.ca/insurance/caa-insurance-parent-agrees-buy-echelon-insurance-1004148463/
 

roadrash

Well-known member
That's just it, yes sale prices/land value has increased significantly, but replacement cost of the structure has not.



Auto claims have tripled? That sounds like quite a tale if I've ever heard one (from your agent). I find it VERY hard to believe they saw a 3 fold increase and it isn't plastered all over the news. Given that everyone here, and that I speak with in my circle has the same sentiment "you better not make a claim or your insurance is going up forever". As far as "fraudulent claims on the rise" and everyone footing the bill, if they know they are fraudulent, nothing should be paid, insurance would be cancelled and those individuals would be paying a MUCH higher rate with their next company, or facility. It would have no effect on rates. (Not bitching at you, just the agents reasoning) I know it's just one agent, but largely this is how the insurance industry operates, smoke and mirrors as to why your rate went up. "Well we can't say but it's probably because X". "There's lots of claims in your postal code". My dogs pet insurance company does the same non-sense. I think it's just the typical case of insurance feeling that rates have been relatively stable for a few years, it's time to raise rates using their pile of excuses they've built up.

It's funny, I was with Statefarm for over 10 years prior to switching to Allstate. The only reason I switched to Allstate was my SS was with TD and had zero faith in them (more below). With Statefarm, Home and Auto was the lowest of any quote I ever got. In 10 years with them I never had any surprise renewals, rates were great. They never went down, but never increased and felt they were always "about as good as you can get".


I had my bike with TD for a year and have to say their insurance downright scares me. You call and talk to what seems a foreign call center each time, there is no single agent to call. The stories vary from one person to the next, no notes are kept. They bounce you around between TD General and TDMM blaming one another. I would never go back there. Insurance is only as valuable as the company behind it at the end of the day and TD seems like it would be impossible to resolve anything with given their structure. Imagine being laid up in serious accident, waiting on accident benefits and you call only to get in touch with their call center in Madagascar ? If anyone is on the 'fence' because they will save a couple bucks with TD - DON'T DO IT!


EDIT: One thing I think is going to be a huge hit again is in 2-3 years once all the data has come back to them on this "Naked" bike craze, where new riders who would have jumped on a 600/1000SS are ending up on 100-120HP torque filled naked bikes at cheap rates. I think those riders will be in for a huge increase similar to SS saw years back, black listing, etc. It boggles my mind how bikes are blacklisted or 'favored' currently. A new rider can start out with 'reasonable' rates (sub 2K) on a 100hp naked bike like a GSX-S 750, Z800 no problem, but won't be able to find 600 SS insurance for under 6K for years and years? Zero logic from those who set policies.
FWIW, couple of my friends went through auto insurance claims with TD and it was painless. In fact, one of the claims was a hit and run to my friend's car in a parking lot. He had no dashcam or proof that someone else hit his car. Despite this and the dealer's mechanic claiming that it was hit by someone else, TD passed the claim as a not-at-fault (he doesn't have accident forgiveness coverage either). Following year his rate dropped.
 

rust0r

Well-known member
Curious, what's the premium on only the liability for your motorcycles?
and what does it say it actually does for you?
Around $170 for bodily injury + property damage, what are you getting at ? (Not being a smart ***, I'm curious your thought behind asking).

As per document:

"Liability: Provides coverage for you or other insured persons if someone else is killed or injured or their property is damaged in an automobile accident. It will pay for legitimate claims against you or other insured persons up to the limit of your coverage, and the cost of settling claims."

Interesting article over at driving.ca examining why insurance rates are typically highest in Ontario relative to other provinces, notably Quebec. One big factor, apparently insurance fraud has become a major problem here in Ontario. It's a system in desperate need of a reform:
Like every system in Ontario, it's in desperate need of reform with no actual reform in sight because everyone who can change things is in someone's pocket or an EX-CEO from within the industry.
 

rust0r

Well-known member
FWIW, couple of my friends went through auto insurance claims with TD and it was painless. In fact, one of the claims was a hit and run to my friend's car in a parking lot. He had no dashcam or proof that someone else hit his car. Despite this and the dealer's mechanic claiming that it was hit by someone else, TD passed the claim as a not-at-fault (he doesn't have accident forgiveness coverage either). Following year his rate dropped.
That's extremely shocking to be honest. My dealings was the worst customer service experience I've ever had in my life. Called for insurance at TDMM a week before picking up the bike, gave all my info, VIN of the bike, back and forth over proper discounts for my group, "yes all set, just call us the day you pick up the bike and we will enact the coverage and email you the temporary slip". Fast forward I'm in the guys driveway, cash in hand, call them "Sorry, we can't write the policy, we don't see that you have a motorcycle license on our end, we need the ministry to push it to us". I explain I'm in the driveway of the seller, over an hour away from home, and the ministry is closing in 20 minutes, can I forward an email copy of my license? No deal.

Get ministry to sort it out for them the next day, go back up later that week. Get a call a few weeks later stating my discount isn't applicable because I've hadn't had continuous coverage for 3 years. I told them, "You were aware of this when you quoted me, that I took a break from riding for several years, you wrote the policy weeks ago and told me I was good to go". "Sorry our underwriters said no, there is nothing we can do, here's your new rate with us or we can send you to TD General". Manager does nothing, no level of empathy displayed or acceptance that they screwed up. They now transfer me to TD General who throws their hands up and says "Sorry, your issue is with TD MM, we can't help you". It's interesting to note that TD General and TD MM have two different underwriting companies, with two different sets of rules. Basically if you want a discount with TD MM, their rules for years licensed/insured and the whole lot, is much more stringent than TD General, surprise surprise.

Absolutely horrid experience with them every step of the way. Happy to hear your friends made out okay but based on the experience I had with them they would have to be my only option for insurance for me to ever go back to them. They were presented with all of the information 10 times and couldn't get things straight on their end, given the industry they operate in they simply fall back on "their underwriters said no" line as a scapegoat, there's no accountability on their end.
 

roadrash

Well-known member
That's extremely shocking to be honest. My dealings was the worst customer service experience I've ever had in my life. Called for insurance at TDMM a week before picking up the bike, gave all my info, VIN of the bike, back and forth over proper discounts for my group, "yes all set, just call us the day you pick up the bike and we will enact the coverage and email you the temporary slip". Fast forward I'm in the guys driveway, cash in hand, call them "Sorry, we can't write the policy, we don't see that you have a motorcycle license on our end, we need the ministry to push it to us". I explain I'm in the driveway of the seller, over an hour away from home, and the ministry is closing in 20 minutes, can I forward an email copy of my license? No deal.

Get ministry to sort it out for them the next day, go back up later that week. Get a call a few weeks later stating my discount isn't applicable because I've hadn't had continuous coverage for 3 years. I told them, "You were aware of this when you quoted me, that I took a break from riding for several years, you wrote the policy weeks ago and told me I was good to go". "Sorry our underwriters said no, there is nothing we can do, here's your new rate with us or we can send you to TD General". Manager does nothing, no level of empathy displayed or acceptance that they screwed up. They now transfer me to TD General who throws their hands up and says "Sorry, your issue is with TD MM, we can't help you". It's interesting to note that TD General and TD MM have two different underwriting companies, with two different sets of rules. Basically if you want a discount with TD MM, their rules for years licensed/insured and the whole lot, is much more stringent than TD General, surprise surprise.

Absolutely horrid experience with them every step of the way. Happy to hear your friends made out okay but based on the experience I had with them they would have to be my only option for insurance for me to ever go back to them. They were presented with all of the information 10 times and couldn't get things straight on their end, given the industry they operate in they simply fall back on "their underwriters said no" line as a scapegoat, there's no accountability on their end.
That sucks and sad to hear, especially them changing the rate *after* the policy was activated. I guess these call center operated insurance companies generate the insurance slip without getting approval from the underwriter first, unlike Allstate and other broker-run insurers.

I was considering moving everything over to TD this year if Allstate sky rockets for me (which it likely will). I have no other options at the moment because of my supersport and being motorcycle licensed for less than 6 years, not untill mid this year anyway. Sadly my renewal is due in 2 months.
 

The Bachelor

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Just got my renewal ( Jan8 ) with Dalton Timmis and SKY HIGH!!!!! My bike is up 30%, wife's 20% and house 35%. Still waiting on the cars but you can take a guess of what they will be. They are now closed for the night since they have cushy hours, but I will be cancelling everything with them if they are not willing to make a solution happen. Sorry to hear about screwed over by the other insurance companies.
 

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