04 R1 high rev on 6th gear???

[MR JJ]

Before I start I just wanted to say thanks in advance.
My 04 R1 seems to loose power when on 6th gear. I'm on 9500RPM 132klixx. I thought it's was the spark plugs at first. Changed it and same problem. Put some injectors and fuel lines cleaner still same. I did some research on R1 forum and so many possibly things that may cause the problem. E.G. injectors, exup, clutch, tranny, tps, one suggested to put power commander. So If anyone here have the same problem before, how did you fix it? Or anyone here have any idea what's wrong please help me out. Again thanks in advance.

 

[Brian P]

A better explanation of the problem is needed.

"High rev in 6th gear" - "9500 rpm 132 klix" - is this meaning that your engine is doing 9500 rpm in 6th gear at indicated 132 km/h? The math does not compute (or there is a critical piece of information missing). With stock gearing that bike should be doing somewhere near, or a hair over, 4000 rpm per 100 km/h in 6th gear, i.e. around 5300 - 5500 rpm at 132 km/h. This is a lock-step arrangement due to the mechanical linkage inside the transmission. This means 4000 rpm per 100 km/h means 2000 rpm at 50 km/h, 6000 rpm at 150 km/h, etc.

Now, explain your discrepancy from this. I will give a number of suggestions for you to pick from. If the situation is different then explain it CLEARLY.

1. Engine revs are 9500 rpm in 6th gear at 132 km/h AT FULL THROTTLE but if you back out of the throttle and coast back through 132 km/h then the revs are in the above-mentioned 5200 - 5500 rpm range at that speed. If this is the case, then your clutch is slipping. Fix it.

2. Engine revs are 9500 rpm in 6th at 132 km/h, and around 10,500 rpm in 5th at 132 km/h, and near redline in 4th at 132 km/h (and the engine bounces off the rev limiter in 4th if an attempt is made to accelerate much beyond this), and this arrangement is independent of throttle position. If this is the case, someone has installed stupidly and insanely short gearing on the bike. Go back to stock gearing.

3. The tachometer indicates 9500 rpm in 6th at 132 km/h but there is no apparent adverse affect on the bike's performance, the tach indication is not consistent with the audible speed of the engine, and the bike otherwise operates normally. If this is the case, then your tachometer is whacked. Replace it.

Or something else.

Explain CLEARLY.

 

[MR JJ]

Hey Brian thanks for your reply. You are the third person said about clutch is slipping. Sorry about the explanation, I don't really know how to explain it well.

Anyway say your cruising on 6th gear 120klixx whenever I give the full throttle the RPM goes high and the engine scream. Feels like no torque or power.

By any chance Brian. Do you live in Scarborough? And do you have GSXR 1000?

A better explanation of the problem is needed.

"High rev in 6th gear" - "9500 rpm 132 klix" - is this meaning that your engine is doing 9500 rpm in 6th gear at indicated 132 km/h? The math does not compute (or there is a critical piece of information missing). With stock gearing that bike should be doing somewhere near, or a hair over, 4000 rpm per 100 km/h in 6th gear, i.e. around 5300 - 5500 rpm at 132 km/h. This is a lock-step arrangement due to the mechanical linkage inside the transmission. This means 4000 rpm per 100 km/h means 2000 rpm at 50 km/h, 6000 rpm at 150 km/h, etc.

Now, explain your discrepancy from this. I will give a number of suggestions for you to pick from. If the situation is different then explain it CLEARLY.

1. Engine revs are 9500 rpm in 6th gear at 132 km/h AT FULL THROTTLE but if you back out of the throttle and coast back through 132 km/h then the revs are in the above-mentioned 5200 - 5500 rpm range at that speed. If this is the case, then your clutch is slipping. Fix it.

2. Engine revs are 9500 rpm in 6th at 132 km/h, and around 10,500 rpm in 5th at 132 km/h, and near redline in 4th at 132 km/h (and the engine bounces off the rev limiter in 4th if an attempt is made to accelerate much beyond this), and this arrangement is independent of throttle position. If this is the case, someone has installed stupidly and insanely short gearing on the bike. Go back to stock gearing.

3. The tachometer indicates 9500 rpm in 6th at 132 km/h but there is no apparent adverse affect on the bike's performance, the tach indication is not consistent with the audible speed of the engine, and the bike otherwise operates normally. If this is the case, then your tachometer is whacked. Replace it.

Or something else.

Explain CLEARLY.

 

[toysareforboys]

Anyway say your cruising on 6th gear 120klixx whenever I give the full throttle the RPM goes high and the engine scream. Feels like no torque or power.

Yep, that's the clutch

-Jamie M.

 

[slowbird]

Sure does sound like the clutch.

My friend had a similar issue with his CBR and it was a poorly adjusted Clutch cable.

If that checks out for you (or if you got a hydraulic clutch) then it's on to the actual clutch itself.
Is it badly worn? Mileage on the bike?
Have you changed the oil recently? Did you put in correct oil?

 

[toysareforboys]

My friend had a similar issue with his CBR and it was a poorly adjusted Clutch cable.

Have you changed the oil recently? Did you put in correct oil?

Ahhh yes, good points!!

Check your clutch free-play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRBGiTrpp7I

Make sure you're not using "car" oil in your bike (if you see the "energy saving" logo on the back of the oil bottle = BAD for your clutch and is probably making it slip):

-Jamie M.

 

[MR JJ]

Thanks toysareforboys and slowbird for the info. Helps me a lot. I'll try to fix that and I'll let u guys know. Thanks.

 

[RockerGuy]

Ahhh yes, good points!!

Check your clutch free-play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRBGiTrpp7I

Make sure you're not using "car" oil in your bike (if you see the "energy saving" logo on the back of the oil bottle = BAD for your clutch and is probably making it slip):

-Jamie M.

Some people use so called "car oil" in their bikes without problems.

If u're using 10w-30, that's your problem from the get-go

 

[MR JJ]

Some people use so called "car oil" in their bikes without problems.

If u're using 10w-30, that's your problem from the get-go

Thanks RockerGuy...but I used 10-40

 

[Brian P]

Hey Brian thanks for your reply. You are the third person said about clutch is slipping. Sorry about the explanation, I don't really know how to explain it well.

Anyway say your cruising on 6th gear 120klixx whenever I give the full throttle the RPM goes high and the engine scream. Feels like no torque or power.

By any chance Brian. Do you live in Scarborough? And do you have GSXR 1000?

That's not me, but I think I know the guy you are talking about (and by the way, his diagnostic of this problem would have probably been the same as mine).

Anyway, the other folks above have this covered. Make sure there is some free play in your clutch cable - it needs to have a few millimeters of slack in the lever when it is released before it starts pulling the cable. Otherwise, the clutch could be partially disengaged even when you are not pulling the lever. It appears that you have not used an "energy conserving" oil, either.

If the cable is OK then it's time to pull the clutch cover off and have a look at the plates inside ...

By the way, there is a good chance that if the cable turns out to be too tight and you fix that, your continued riding the bike with it in this condition has probably cooked the clutch plates in any event.

 

[MR JJ]

Thanks Brian again for the info. I will see what could do and keep you guys posted.

thank you

That's not me, but I think I know the guy you are talking about (and by the way, his diagnostic of this problem would have probably been the same as mine).

Anyway, the other folks above have this covered. Make sure there is some free play in your clutch cable - it needs to have a few millimeters of slack in the lever when it is released before it starts pulling the cable. Otherwise, the clutch could be partially disengaged even when you are not pulling the lever. It appears that you have not used an "energy conserving" oil, either.

If the cable is OK then it's time to pull the clutch cover off and have a look at the plates inside ...

By the way, there is a good chance that if the cable turns out to be too tight and you fix that, your continued riding the bike with it in this condition has probably cooked the clutch plates in any event.

 

[Armen444]

Hey guys, im 99.99% certain that i am having the EXACT same problem. like mentioned about, moving relatively fast at around 130-140km/h in 6th ( 3/8 Throttle) crank the throttle to about 3/4 and i just get increased RPMS however my speed does not increase, it does slightly 2-3km/h every second or so, but im CERTAIN there shouldnt be a delay in rpm and speed, because like previously stated, it is a LOCK SYSTEM, meaning the rear wheel is completely in sync with the clutch plates via a gear ratio, at any which point in time this SET ratio is affected, the clutch is slipping. I just answered my own question However i am currently using 15W-40 "Diesel" engine oil made by Castrol to the best of my knowledge its also suitable for gasoline operated vehicles. Before the oil change this problem was still present so i think if anything the new oil aided in the problem however did not solve it (ofcourse it didnt because the plates are probably F*cked or springs are pooched). I also have another slight problem with my transmission, definitely not originating from the clutch but yet, the gears. So when i shift in the first i get a reassuring clunk and the bike moves forward very slightly but rapidly (like a shake), and takes off smooth now when shifting into second i get a gear mashing and not so reassuring click rather than a crunk@!@! and this has been a problem ever since i have been in posetion of the bike, all other gear shifts from 3-6 are flawless however. So what could the problem be?

 

[Brian P]

Gear-change problems are often related to a bad clutch, and if yours is slipping, it's bad. Fix it. It is quite possible that not only is your clutch slipping under load, but it also may not be disengaging properly, and that will cause gear-changing problems.

Keep in mind that the change to 2nd gear will almost always be rougher than any other shift. Reason (1) it has to pass through neutral; (2) the change in ratio between 1st and 2nd is larger than any other in the box - the higher gears get progressively closer together - this means a larger change in engine speed when you do the 1st-to-2nd gearchange.

 

[Armen444]

Gear-change problems are often related to a bad clutch, and if yours is slipping, it's bad. Fix it. It is quite possible that not only is your clutch slipping under load, but it also may not be disengaging properly, and that will cause gear-changing problems.

Keep in mind that the change to 2nd gear will almost always be rougher than any other shift. Reason (1) it has to pass through neutral; (2) the change in ratio between 1st and 2nd is larger than any other in the box - the higher gears get progressively closer together - this means a larger change in engine speed when you do the 1st-to-2nd gearchange.

By fix it you do mean change all plates correct? and if need be, springs as well.
Now about the shifting irregularity, yes i did think of that, just wasnt sure if it was 100% normal, because of course not only are you passing through neutral but the amount of pull from first to second is felt much more than any other, i am in agreement with you 100% but now here comes my fear. because i have absolutely no clue how my machine functions internally, could it really be possible that the engagement of such gears are not aligned or have been damaged? i really do wish i had the time to do a FULLL takedown of my bike, i feel more confident in everything i own if i know how it ticks, call me a nerd or whatever, ive just been brought up that way (Father's a Professional tool and die maker with a short temper ).

 

[Brian P]

With most gearchange problems the underlying problems are either (1) clutch not disengaging properly, or (2) operator error.

A common one is that someone doesn't have the shift pedal set to a height that is comfortable and appropriate for their own foot. Result is that they are not actually pulling the shift lever all the way up and thus are not fully engaging the next gear. The shift pedal height is adjustable - so adjust it to your liking.

Another one is failing to follow the correct shifting sequence. Correct: (1) simultaneously release throttle and pull in clutch, (2) pull up shift pedal and KEEP PULLING UP while (3) release clutch and apply throttle, then (4) release shift pedal. Wrong: exchange steps 3 and 4. The issue is that motorcycle transmissions don't have synchromesh. Sometimes the engagement dogs can push against each other but not quite engage, and with the clutch pulled in there isn't the slight difference in speed between the shafts that is needed for the engagement dogs to engage. If this happens and you follow the correct sequence then the loading from the engine will sort out the engagement as soon as you start letting out the clutch ... but if you have first let go of the shift pedal, it can just grind gears or go into a false neutral between gears.

Everyone complains on the cbr125 board about 5th and 6th gears not engaging properly on that particular bike ... in over 40,000 km, I've never missed that shift, because I follow the proper sequence. Quite commonly, I can feel the shift lever not quite grab the next gear until I start letting out the clutch. Follow the correct sequence and it will always go in, every time.

 

[RicoChet]

Sounds to me like a burned out clutch, inspect plates and springs

Also could be badly adjusted clutch cable.... Inspect it and make sure it is not wearing down or breaking

 

[Armen444]

how does one badly adjust a clutch cable? I did re-adjust my clutch cable but i am 110% certain the clutch does fully disengage when lever is pulled, and it does fully engage 3/4 when let out. Im not doing anything wrong am i?

 

[Armen444]

Sounds to me like a burned out clutch, inspect plates and springs

Also could be badly adjusted clutch cable.... Inspect it and make sure it is not wearing down or breaking

I have a feeling both the springs and plates need to be thrown in the garbage

 

[RicoChet]

how does one badly adjust a clutch cable? I did re-adjust my clutch cable but i am 110% certain the clutch does fully disengage when lever is pulled, and it does fully engage 3/4 when let out. Im not doing anything wrong am i?

There are specifications for each bike on how to adjust the clutch properly... But to answer your question if it's a cable sometimes they can stretch and start breaking thread by thread... That changes how effective your clutch can be unfortunately!!

 

[Armen444]

There are specifications for each bike on how to adjust the clutch properly... But to answer your question if it's a cable sometimes they can stretch and start breaking thread by thread... That changes how effective your clutch can be unfortunately!!

checked the "specs" on the owners manual... yes i have done it correctly, i didnt really need a service manual to tell me how to adjust freeplay i guess