Canada Post - Huge losses

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PrivatePilot said:
By that logic should we do away with things like libraries? Public parks? Ditch rural broadband expansion? Student loan programs? Disaster response preparedness programs and services? Sickness benefits? Huge infrastructure programs that might not serve one’s immediate area?

These are all examples of public expenditures on things that not everybody uses, but provides benefit to our country and society.

Government doesn’t need to be run like a business, it’s not always about profit and losses, it’s about serving the country and its people. . We are seeing a real time example south of the border right now of what happens when somebody tries to run a country like a business instead of….a country.
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A well anticipated counter point!

Short answer; yes.

Longer answer;

Government needs to change with the times;

Example: fully staffed libraries (as above) can probably be downsized or practically erased. The number of 'kids' without access to the internet (or a computer in general) through schools, rec centres or the home is probably a rounding error.

Now I'll leave you to carry on your point about benefiting 'our' country and society...like Quebec..a province that until 3 months ago historically has not cared to be a part of anything outside their borders (yes im generalizing to make a point).

I would be floored if we ever see a pipeline in Quebec in my lifetime.

We've also wandered far, far off topic. I'm on vacation so i won't be moderating till i'm back. Let's put @Lightcycle to work. 😁
 
Steering this back;

I spoke to a 14 year vet (CP) today on the road, they are implenenting changes to force the employees to work the full 8 hrs. He's ****** because he does Air Canada (something) as a side hustle. In 6 months he will take his 15 years and split if this goes down. Apparently lots of people with seniority are happy to look for the exit with the gold plated pension.

He mentioned the union is expecting some sort of report back today. They will then decide on strike action after digesting that.

Maybe @Jayell has better details.
 
PrivatePilot said:
It’s obvious the hatred of the CBC by many is rooted in people‘s political leanings, but when you actually dive into what they offer for the country versus how much it costs us versus other countries that support public broadcasting, it’s not all bad.

Without the CBC there would be a lot of areas in Canada that would have little or no coverage of news as commercial broadcasters aren’t interested in serving areas that are unprofitable. This is both TV and radio. It’s also a very valuable tool for communication during emergencies such as natural disasters.

In these small rural areas and communities they cover things like town halls, small town elections, etc. These places aren’t going to be covered by the big broadcasters as again, there’s no profit in it, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t hold a lot of value to those who are in these typically under serviced rural areas. It’s easy for people who live in the big cities to say that none of this matters, but for the people who actually live in these areas the reality is much different.

They also provide cultural and Canadian specific programming which in this day and age of the USA increasingly creeping north of the border holds value to a lot of Canadians.

There is a lot of children’s programming as well which isn’t just the usual cartoon trash but actually has some valuable learning components. We have a family member who only lets her kid watch educational slanted programming which he quite enjoys but actually learns from vs staring blankly at the screen. Sort of like PBS in the USA, (i.e. Sesame Street etc) this is another area in which commercial broadcasters aren’t particularly interested in servicing because it’s not profit driven.

Being able to serve virtually our entire country for the amount of money that we spend on it is not a bad ROI. Compared against other public broadcasters like the BBC which costs over $5b

I think it’s important too step back and look at the larger picture of what the CBC provides across the entire country.
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What part of the country are you talking about that has no local news? I spend a great deal of time in very remote areas of Ontario… Porcupine, Moosonee, Attawapiskat - local radio and print covers the local stuff - not CBC. In fact I have never needed to get news from CBC anywhere in Canada and I’ve been everywhere, man.

50 years ago CBC may have been relevant. We had OTA radio and TV, so having broadcast facilities in remote areas was a critical service. Technology gives digital tv and 10,000 Chanels to anyone, anywhere they want it.

And comparing to other public broadcasters isn’t as easy as comparing spend. England and Germany (the big spenders) have never developed a private broadcaster market - public broadcasters control and regulate those markets. Compare us to countries with a robust national media.
 
ReSTored said:
Are we in line for another strike? I hope not.

CP should increase prices to cover the current deficit and move forward with community mailboxes wherever possible.

CUPW is doing what a union is supposed to do, advocate for their members, however ridiculous or out of touch their demands or expectations might seem to be at times.

The expectation of time and a half or double time for weekend work is based on legacy agreements that go back decades, when Monday - Friday work was the norm for most members, aside from those that work in sorting centers. I'd be curious to know what percentage of CP workers do in fact work on weekends at the increased rate. Is this the norm, or is this the exception? Don't know.
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Actually, from what I understand, CUPW offered up weekend assignments for regular posties making non-overtime wages. Volunteer position. After that, it goes to casual workers who are desperate for hours…
 
BigEvilDoer said:
Actually, from what I understand, CUPW offered up weekend assignments for regular posties making non-overtime wages. Volunteer position. After that, it goes to casual workers who are desperate for hours…
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No, they didn't. They're insisting on using the existing contract.. double time on weekends regardless of how many hours are worked during the week.
 
The report the government was waiting for was released. It recommends phasing out daily residential delivery but keeping daily business delivery. That seems reasonable to me. Obviously there are some logistics issues to be solved like how to queue mail between deliveries.

www.ctvnews.ca

Canada Post report recommends phasing out daily door-to-door mail delivery

The Industrial Inquiry Commission report on the labour dispute at Canada Post recommends phasing out daily door-to-door letter mail delivery for individual addresses, while daily delivery to businesses should be maintained.
www.ctvnews.ca www.ctvnews.ca
 
GreyGhost said:
The report the government was waiting for was released. It recommends phasing out daily residential delivery but keeping daily business delivery. That seems reasonable to me. Obviously there are some logistics issues to be solved like how to queue mail between deliveries.

www.ctvnews.ca

Canada Post report recommends phasing out daily door-to-door mail delivery

The Industrial Inquiry Commission report on the labour dispute at Canada Post recommends phasing out daily door-to-door letter mail delivery for individual addresses, while daily delivery to businesses should be maintained.
www.ctvnews.ca www.ctvnews.ca
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and...
converting to community boxes, closing post offices, dynamic routing, hiring more part timers, paid regular wage on weekends, paid 8 hours-work 8 hours, etc..
The employees and union are not going to like that report!
 
CP isn't doing themselves any favours with this approach.

I'm union, I get it....fight to the death is the default mentality. Except sometimes it actually results in death.

Our union has taken an L at least once (in a big way) in the 2+ decades I've worked at my current company as a union guy and let the company get some concessions that were evident were going to be necessary to ensure the company would be able to continue operating. So we lost the battle that one contract (and had at least one subsequent "meh" contract after that), but won the war - we are still all employed 15+ years later, and we've made up those concessions in the long run since.

I think it's time for CP employees to step back and realize that they might be cutting off their own nose to spite their face here. I get it, nobody wants to take the big L in negotiations, but if the federal government decides it's time to take catastrophic action to reshape the postal service given as how CP is effectively bankrupt at this point, the employees are going to come out far worse for having had the union buck it from start to finish then if they came to the table and tried to negotiate something that worked for both sides. It might not be universally pretty for the employees at the end of the day, but unemployment is no fun either, especially when your future job prospects are far crappier than what an austerity plan might have resulted in.
 
CP is a company which can’t see the writing on the wall. They are from what it seems are practically bankrupt. The union should be just be pushing job security and thats it , because the alternative is they do go bankrupt then what?


Sent from the Moon!
 
raginduck said:
Here's a summary of the recommendations...

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infopost.ca

And.. the full report..

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infopost.ca
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The recommended changes seem pretty basic and are things we as a group have talked about, they should have come to us first.......... LOL

CP isn't completely stupid or ignorant. Many at CP have called for similar changes in the past. There has been significant government interference in the operations of CP, stopping or limiting the move to community mailboxes and limiting postage rate increases, all for political purposes of buying votes.

The collective agreement has also been a significant barrier to change. It has evolved over many decades, a time when postal services were critical to the economy and the life of Canadians. The union recognized this and leveraged their position to build contract language that protected employees, gave them good wages and benefits and limited change to work conditions. Unions typically start negotiation with the existing contract as a baseline, to be built on. The concept of opening up an agreement and removing hard fought for language taken as a given for decades is completely foreign to union members, their elected representatives and negotiating team.

A private sector business with significantly declining volumes and revenue will restructure, reduce expenses and try to develop new markets. Those that don't to this successfully eventually go out of business. Unionized employees at these companies know this and are relatively willing to open up contracts and make concessions to help the company stay in business and retain jobs for members.

IMO, CUPW operates on the premise that the federal government will not let CP go bankrupt and fail. Regardless of what we think here, there are many businesses in Canada that rely on CP services and there are many citizens, in particular the elderly and those in rural areas that rely heavily on CP as well. The union is banking, literally, that the feds will continue to provide operating subsidies to keep CP in business indefinitely as the alternative would not be politically acceptable.

So, I think we're in for another strike and another round of frustration as an entrenched union soldier on and fights change as the government continues to indirectly enable this.
 
I haven't read much of this thread but can add as the spouse of a letter carrier, the carriers do not want to strike. They NEED to work.

So many are still reeling from the last strike and dealing with mounting debt. They don't know how they are going to take care of their families and the single parents are especially worried. Their own 'forums' are filling with words of desperation.

Don't blame the carriers, they don't want this. Not even a little.
 
JZ67 said:
I haven't read much of this thread but can add as the spouse of a letter carrier, the carriers do not want to strike. They NEED to work.

So many are still reeling from the last strike and dealing with mounting debt. They don't know how they are going to take care of their families and the single parents are especially worried. Their own 'forums' are filling with words of desperation.

Don't blame the carriers, they don't want this. Not even a little.
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Would employees get in trouble from the union or CP for taking a temp job elsewhere during a strike?
 
JZ67 said:
Don't blame the carriers, they don't want this. Not even a little.
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Enough employees voted to strike last October however to make it happen then, albeit the union is being a bit slimy now and using that same vote again this time to justify this one.

I think many are now regretting their October vote.
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