Let's talk about the ELEPHANT in the room (certifications)

Can you get a newer bike certified with a deleted cat?

Mechanics are going to be more worried about the muffler - I doubt many would notice a missing cat, and even fewer would probably care if they did know. I don't see anything in the veribage that would specifically matter when it comes to cat vs muffler. Only if we had emissions testing would it be a problem, and that's not an issue.
 
Friend recently got a safety done for an R6 here in Ottawa.
Price across all motorcycle dealerships for the safety are $319 plus tax.

Failed for:
  • Leaking right fork seal (shop was supposed to perform the fork service BEFORE the inspection but didn't)
  • Front Tire (Enough tread, but aging and cracks visible)
  • Rear rotor thickness (4.5mm thickness min. 4.48 measured)
  • Tinted windscreen
  • Fender Eliminator - They wanted the OEM "mud guard" fender in place - even though all 3 reflectors in place and turn signals properly mounted 9 inch apart.
Aftermarket Hindle exhaust wasn't an issue.

Hope this helps.
Excellent information!
This is the information that people need to know as opposed to opinions or theories.
What year R6?
 
Excellent information!
This is the information that people need to know as opposed to opinions or theories.
What year R6?
Really? The exact same could have been the case before the change. This tells us nothing about the new testing procedures.
The specs have not changed just the documentations of those specs.
 
Really? The exact same could have been the case before the change. This tells us nothing about the new testing procedures.
The specs have not changed just the documentations of those specs.
Provided the information is correct it describes a real life scenario.
Cost
Failed fork seal, tire for age/cracks, tinted screen and tidy tail.
Aftermarket exhaust not an issue.
In most cases prior to the change some of those items would have passed. To simply say that the rules are the same is not accurate because it was not scrutinized in real time by a government paid watchdog.
 
In most cases prior to the change some of those items would have passed. To simply say that the rules are the same is not accurate because it was not scrutinized in real time by a government paid watchdog.
They were all fails in the past as they are now. The fact that some were willing to let it slide in the past does not mean the rules have changed. Lots of shops would have failed those same items in the past.
 
Last edited:
Friend recently got a safety done for an R6 here in Ottawa.
Price across all motorcycle dealerships for the safety are $319 plus tax.

Much cheaper many places around GTA and Kitchener-Waterloo. $220-$250 now. (bike dependent, rear drum brake models require disassembly for photos of brake shoes which is more labour) Wouldn't apply to R6.
 
Dropped my new-to-me 1982 BMW R100RS off at Airheads in Kitchener for a complete going over and refresh where necessary.

George commented that the new safety regime has NO CHANGES TO SPECIFICATIONS but requires photos of components. Which means removing a wheel for drum brakes as mentioned previously for example. All that will end up costing more without question, and will mean some previous "loose" safety's will not be possible anymore.

For example, as an off road rider I have known countless guys who would license (blue plate) their YZ/CR/KX/RM etc. dirt bike from new and quite a few who could present a used one for an inspection and walk away with a certification if they knew the right shop. Hells bells I'm guilty as my KTM 300EXC was blue plated back in 1999. Between the ministry cracking down on vin numbers and the new inspection/certification regime those days are over, and I'm OK with it. As long as it's all done consistently then have at it.

The issue for older or vintage bikes lies in the fact that many shops don't want to do inspections for these. In my opinion it's because the techs they have working for them don't know anything (or at least much) about disassembling or servicing older bikes. I highly doubt a mechanic at a BMW dealer would have the vaguest idea about servicing/rebuilding the carbs on my R100 and any of the other things we older riders take for granted.

It could also be that shops nowadays can't afford to spend the time on older machines. Much better to read the fault code, order the parts, do the install, ring up the bill and move on to the next job.

My fiends' step son got his ticket as a mechanic but without a code scanner he hasn't a clue what's going on. Well, I guess it could be argued that he hasn't got a clue period but that's a different matter.

As for the increased cost, they stopped collecting yearly license plate fees so regardless of the increased inspection costs and UVIP costs we're still ahead.
 
For example, as an off road rider I have known countless guys who would license (blue plate) their YZ/CR/KX/RM etc. dirt bike from new and quite a few who could present a used one for an inspection and walk away with a certification if they knew the right shop. Hells bells I'm guilty as my KTM 300EXC was blue plated back in 1999. Between the ministry cracking down on vin numbers and the new inspection/certification regime those days are over, and I'm OK with it. As long as it's all done consistently then have at it.

I can't say I agree with this at all, and see no difference between it and other vintage bikes. It seems you're OK with it because it doesn't affect you anymore. They are no less safe than all the vintage junk with dual drum brakes that are "street legal", and provided the pre-rule change conversions are fully outfitted with all necessary equipment, it's BS they are suddenly not able to be transferred any longer due to being not safety-able. There was no needing to know the right shop because no laws were being skirted. If you had a bike with a horn, headlight, turn signals, front and rear brake switch lights, mirrors yada yada nobody had an issue with it.

Just like some vintage bikes many of the converted bikes have decent value because they are sought after. There is the opposite of consistency that a completely on the up and up once "off-road" converted dual sport that has been legally plated for 20+ years can no longer be sold on. It has no difference in operation when it has a full street kit on it.
 
Last edited:
I can't say I agree with this at all, and see no difference between it and other vintage bikes. It seems you're OK with it because it doesn't affect you anymore. They are no less safe than all the vintage junk with dual drum brakes that are "street legal", and provided the pre-rule change conversions are fully outfitted with all necessary equipment, it's BS they are suddenly not able to be transferred any longer due to being not safety-able. There was no needing to know the right shop because no laws were being skirted. If you had a bike with a horn, headlight, turn signals, front and rear brake switch lights, mirrors yada yada nobody had an issue with it.

Just like some vintage bikes many of the converted bikes have decent value because they are sought after. There is the opposite of consistency that a completely on the up and up once "off-road" converted dual sport that has been legally plated for 20+ years can no longer be sold on. It has no difference in operation when it has a full street kit on it.
"bike with a horn, headlight, turn signals, front and rear brake switch lights, mirrors"

Except that's not describing the majority of blue-plated off road bikes. The Euro street legal enduros plus the CRF450l but that's it. Obviously the mild mannered dual sports fill a different role. I specifically pointed to blue plated MX bikes, which I've seen mostly stock without even a non operating headlight/numberplate and bicycle horn.

As for the "vintage junk" they were street legal when introduced so I don't see the issue if they pass a safety. I see plenty of "vintage junk" cars at the local car nights too that have passed a safety so no issue with them either.

There was an accident somewhere in SW Ontario in the last couple years as I recall, involving a blue plated off road bike. The insurance company realized that the model shouldn't have been able to be licensed for the road and voided the policy leaving the involved parties to fight it out in court.
 
My fiends' step son got his ticket as a mechanic but without a code scanner he hasn't a clue what's going on.

This just seems….wrong.

I grew up with a lifelong career mechanic for a dad. He owned his own shop. I spent a lot of time there as a kid, and dad also did a lot of gearhead stuff outside of work as well, which I was always there to see and help with. Yeah, dad was sometimes that “you’re holding the flashlight wrong!” dad lol, but you could learn a lot holding a flashlight and just watching. I did learn a lot.

Accordingly, a lot of the diagnostic stuff, ie “what’s that smell/noise/smoke/etc” stuff rubbed off on me, as well as electrical and just plain old fashioned “how mechanical stuff works” logic, etc.

To think that some kids are now getting read seals and only know now to read a computer and couldn’t identify burning coolant vs burning oil coming out of a tailpipe by sight and smell alone (for one example), or how to fix a simple broken thing vs replacing an entire assembly with factory parts is just kinda scary.
 
Last edited:
This just seems….wrong.

I grew up with a lifelong career mechanic for a dad. He owned his own shop. I spent a lot of time there as a kid, and dad also did a lot of gearhead stuff outside of work as well, which I was always there to see and help with. Yeah, dad was sometimes that “you’re holding the flashlight wrong!” dad lol, but you could learn a lot holding a flashlight and just watching. I did learn a lot.

Accordingly, a lot of the diagnostic stuff, ie “what’s that smell/noise/smoke/etc” stuff rubbed off on me, as well as electrical and just plain old fashioned “how mechanical stuff works” logic, etc.

To think that some kids are now getting read seals and only know now to read a computer and couldn’t identify burning coolant vs burning oil coming out of a tailpipe (for one example), or how to fix a simple broken thing vs replacing an entire assembly with factory parts is just kinda scary.
Agreed.

Like I said/implied the only clue this young man has came in a box marked "Parker Brothers".

He bailed on becoming a mechanic when all he could find was piece work at CDN Tire so his license has expired (thankfully).

Just to demonstrate his complete lack of mechanical aptitude he blew up 3 different Subarus because he let the oil level get too low. 3 FREAKIN TIMES!!!!
 
Just to demonstrate his complete lack of mechanical aptitude he blew up 3 different Subarus because he let the oil level get too low. 3 FREAKIN TIMES!!!!

Yeah, this is like a medical student “killing” the cardiac dummy during defibrillator training day because he forgot to plug in the defibrillator.It’s a strong sign that one’s chosen career may not be the right career path after the fact lol.
 
Friend recently got a safety done for an R6 here in Ottawa.
Price across all motorcycle dealerships for the safety are $319 plus tax.

Failed for:
  • Leaking right fork seal (shop was supposed to perform the fork service BEFORE the inspection but didn't)
  • Front Tire (Enough tread, but aging and cracks visible)
  • Rear rotor thickness (4.5mm thickness min. 4.48 measured)
  • Tinted windscreen
  • Fender Eliminator - They wanted the OEM "mud guard" fender in place - even though all 3 reflectors in place and turn signals properly mounted 9 inch apart.
Aftermarket Hindle exhaust wasn't an issue.

Hope this helps.
I've heard the 9in claim for turn signals before but I've only seen that mentioned in US laws not in the Ontario ones. If I am wrong though I'd like to know.




Source: e-Laws | Ontario.ca

Lighting


6. (1) Prescribed lamps and reflectors shall be inspected and tested and,


(a) each circuit shall light the filaments of all lamps on the circuit when the appropriate switch is in the “ON” position, and each indicator lamp shall indicate correctly;


(b) the operation of any lighting circuit shall not interfere with the operation of any other circuit;


(c) each lens and reflex reflector shall be correctly installed and shall not be discoloured or missing in whole or in part;


(d) each lamp and reflector shall be securely mounted on the vehicle and none shall be missing;


(e) the turn signal lamps and the flasher unit shall operate properly;


(f) the brake light shall operate when the appropriate control is actuated;


(g) no headlamp shall be coated or covered with a coloured material except as permitted by section 4.1 of Regulation 596 of the Revised Regulations of Ontario, 1990;


(h) no headlamp shall be modified so that the effective area of the lens or brightness of the light is reduced;


(i) each headlamp shutter or retracting headlamp shall operate over the full range of movement or shall be secured in the fully open position; and


(j) no lens or lamp assembly shall bear markings that indicate “not for highway use” or a similar meaning.


(2) The headlamp, tail lamp and licence plate lamp on a motorcycle manufactured on or after the 1st day of January, 1975 shall be continuously illuminated when the engine is operating and each forward gear is engaged.


(3) The headlamp and dimmer switch shall be inspected and tested and, on a level surface after any noticeably deflated tires have been properly inflated, the headlamp alignment of the upper beam shall be inspected with a person seated on the operator’s seat and the front forks in the straight ahead position and,


(a) the headlamp shall be secure and the lens shall not be cracked or broken;


(b) the dimmer switch shall be operative; and


(c) the centre of the high-intensity zone of the beam shall be,


(i) not more than 100 millimetres above nor more than 100 millimetres below the horizontal centre-line of the lamp, and


(ii) not more than 200 millimetres to the left nor more than 200 millimetres to the right of the vertical centre-line of the lamp,


as measured on a screen placed eight metres in front of the lamp or by means of a headlamp testing machine.


(4) In addition to the lights and reflectors required to be inspected under this section, a motor tricycle shall be equipped with,


(a) two white or amber parking lamps or reflectors facing forward placed at the widest part of the vehicle, as far apart as practical, to indicate width; and


(b) two red reflectors facing rearwards placed at the widest part of the vehicle, as far apart as practical, to indicate width.


(5) The lamps and reflectors referred to in clauses (4) (a) and (b) shall be inspected and tested in accordance with subsection (1).


(6) Section 8 of Schedule 6.1, rather than this section, applies to a motor tricycle bearing a manufacturer’s compliance label issued under section 6 of the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Canada) specifying the type of vehicle as “TRI” for motor tricycle.


R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 611, Sched. 6; O. Reg. 214/03, s. 2; O. Reg. 114/08, ss. 4-7.
 
Excellent information!
This is the information that people need to know as opposed to opinions or theories.
What year R6?
It's a 2007 R6.

Glad you found the information useful!

I've heard the 9in claim for turn signals before but I've only seen that mentioned in US laws not in the Ontario ones. If I am wrong though I'd like to know.

From a quick search, it's Transport Canada Regulations:

1746666330796.png

I assume this is what shops pull up when they fail you for integrated turn signal tail lights.

Similar topic: Is tail light with integrated turn signals legal in Canada

Cheers
 
But who knows what is actually happening with actual facts.
Just ask our last Federal government for the past 10 years and the clown people just voted in. Gun control comes to mind based on no facts at all.

We need a government website telling us exactly what to expect.
They dictate to us all the time by people who have no background in the subject.
 
^^ You know that vehicle certifications are a provincial thing, not a federal thing…..right?

I know you want everything that’s wrong with life to be Trudeaus fault somehow, but c’mon….
 
^^ You know that vehicle certifications are a provincial thing, not a federal thing…..right?

I know you want everything that’s wrong with life to be Trudeaus fault somehow, but c’mon….
Sort of. The distance between lights is an fmvss thing so set by feds. Provincial could choose not to care about fmvss for safeties. In any case, for all JT screwed up, afaik, fmvss wasn't one of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MCT
Back
Top Bottom