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These Conservatives
- Thread starter nakkers
- Start date
Reads as people living beyond their means to me.
I am 150% against universal basic incomes.
By definition it has to fail. People are competing for limited resources (housing is the main one). Raise the ability to pay and market prices rise with it. You may succeed in changing the group at the bottom of the pile (eg ODSP may move above a CPP recipient).
Hard lines to draw without knowing the facts
Dad, investing time and resources into his volunteer organization after coming out of homelessness. I would say one's priorities are not in line.
Without knowing how many lives he might have touched in his outreach program, It might have been a small price to pay. I've seen addiction firsthand and it ain't pretty
Not my point, but not the focus of the thread. Agree to disagree
While I appreciate what it sounds like he is trying to do, if I can't afford life, my time is focused 100% on that problem. He's trying to live at the top of the pyramid with no base (or alternately, expects taxpayers to build his base while he does what he wants).
Shaman
Well-known member
Here's some facts.
Universal Basic Income in the US and Advanced Countries
Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.
According to this, U.S. Federal fund transfers would have to DOUBLE to states if you systematically, simultaneously shut down most social services to keep spending in check. This is the most comprehensive UBI study available, but it helps to know that Finland paniced when 20% of the working people in their last trial checked out of work to live strictly on UBI, on top of those who quit and took post-secondary education of some sort. Yet that hasn't stopped UBI proponents from crowing about the "success" of the program... "people were happier and less stress with free money!" they gush. Q'eull surprise, amirite?
free money, lol.Here's some facts.
Universal Basic Income in the US and Advanced Countries
Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.www.nber.org
According to this, U.S. Federal fund transfers would have to DOUBLE to states if you systematically, simultaneously shut down most social services to keep spending in check. This is the most comprehensive UBI study available, but it helps to know that Finland paniced when 20% of the working people in their last trial checked out of work to live strictly on UBI, on top of those who quit and took post-secondary education of some sort. Yet that hasn't stopped UBI proponents from crowing about the "success" of the program... "people were happier and less stress with free money!" they gush. Q'eull surprise, amirite?
With all the crime at political levels run in the billions i would think, Whats another 5 million? Maybe he could lobby the government for some funds
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$200M? That's just for 4000 people in the trial run for two years. Scale that up to ~1.5M people (~10% of population is low income and Ontario population is ~15M). That puts the numbers at almost $26B/year for Ontario (about 30% of the total amount allocated to health care). Weee. Let that budget balance itself. That's about a 10% spending increase (or worded differently, every person not in the UBI group needs to throw in about $1,500 a year just to fund this program (90% paying for 10% of people getting 15-20K per year). Would you be willing to throw in $1500 a year? I sure wouldn't. Seeing how governments manage low-income programs now, it would be a crapshow of losers, international students in $2M houses with no income and drug dealers with some people with real needs sprinkled in.
Now do the math for welfare? We are already funding millions in a program
ODSB+OW is about 600K recipients (bonkers especially the 350K on ODSP, I know a few there that do not deserve support). Together they add up to ~$10B. UBI would more than double that commitment.
"When I was on the OBI, I got to go and get a steak for $10 and have that for dinner once a month''
So you'd have steak when you were getting more free money than the usual free money you were getting, and now that has been stopped, you're complaining? Steak is a luxury. You're on social assistance. Do us all a favour and find a blunt object to hit yourself in the head with.
Shaman
Well-known member
You guys are only talking about BI, not UBI. The U in UBI is for "universal."
Of course, if you make enough money to be paying taxes INTO government, they take away your incentive with taxation or clawback. So no soup for you if you are the one dumb enough to pay into the system.
The usual dumb argument for UBI is "it goes back into the economy and is repaid in taxes" - ignoring the fact that sustenance income generally goes into food, housing and public transport which pay either no or a pittance of taxes. Public transit is typically a net negative on government funds, to make matters more dire. Landlords and grocers take the meat of that and do what - expand and buy competitors rather than pay taxes, so UBI in effect becomes a big financial gift for those. Then there's the fact that it directly contributes to increased inflation. Then there's the fact that it will never be enough money once you start down that road. And you'll probably have a taxpayer revolt. Need I go on?
Once you look into UBI with a critical lense, it looks increasingly dumb unless you're the one that wants it because you can't or won't work.
Of course, if you make enough money to be paying taxes INTO government, they take away your incentive with taxation or clawback. So no soup for you if you are the one dumb enough to pay into the system.
The usual dumb argument for UBI is "it goes back into the economy and is repaid in taxes" - ignoring the fact that sustenance income generally goes into food, housing and public transport which pay either no or a pittance of taxes. Public transit is typically a net negative on government funds, to make matters more dire. Landlords and grocers take the meat of that and do what - expand and buy competitors rather than pay taxes, so UBI in effect becomes a big financial gift for those. Then there's the fact that it directly contributes to increased inflation. Then there's the fact that it will never be enough money once you start down that road. And you'll probably have a taxpayer revolt. Need I go on?
Once you look into UBI with a critical lense, it looks increasingly dumb unless you're the one that wants it because you can't or won't work.
It's a good program if you are trying to get another 10% of the population to vote for you. I expect JT/JS to float it as a carrot after the next election if we don't vote in the scary Con's that want you to starve to death.
Shows another side of the man. Looks like he has a skillset that is useful and in high demand
I can see the benefits in social assistance, and sadly I can see the downside in some aspects of social assistance. It’s a lifestyle in many cases and multigenerational, have more babies , get more money . I’d have never launched a universal basic income , so I would never had to cancel it.
I to have first hand experience with alcoholism and drugs . Giving that portion of my extended family more money would have given them access to more and better drugs . They went to rehab and AA when it kept them out of jail and was a convenience .
Sorry , the judge that thinks this lawsuit should go forward , so I can pay a huge settlement to the underwhelming needs a size 11 to the nut sac
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
I to have first hand experience with alcoholism and drugs . Giving that portion of my extended family more money would have given them access to more and better drugs . They went to rehab and AA when it kept them out of jail and was a convenience .
Sorry , the judge that thinks this lawsuit should go forward , so I can pay a huge settlement to the underwhelming needs a size 11 to the nut sac
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
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