California Superbike School

[Moto Ronto]

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Misti, I take it this is not a rhetorical question... are you offering free advice right here?! If not, please ignore my remaining post...

Do you have any tips for improving braking technique? At track days I notice that increasing speed leading into a corner by just a little bit requires a substantial increase in braking effort. The sensation can be unsettling/scary.

Also, some sportbike riders lay off the rear brake completely, and I wanted to ask what you thought of this. My preference is to use both front and rear, despite the risk of locking up the rear wheel.

Thanks!

 

[Misti]

Misti, I take it this is not a rhetorical question... are you offering free advice right here?! If not, please ignore my remaining post...

Do you have any tips for improving braking technique? At track days I notice that increasing speed leading into a corner by just a little bit requires a substantial increase in braking effort. The sensation can be unsettling/scary.

Also, some sportbike riders lay off the rear brake completely, and I wanted to ask what you thought of this. My preference is to use both front and rear, despite the risk of locking up the rear wheel.

Thanks!

Sure As a sportbike rider I lay off using the rear brake completely unless I end up off the track and need it to slow down in the dirt of gravel. We coach our students at the school to use front brake only as well and don't advocate braking mid corner unless needed in an emergency. It's so easy to lock up the rear brake and the front on sportbikes can easily handle all the braking required.

As for improving braking technique at track days...you say that increasing speed requires substantial increase in braking effort and by effort I'm assuming you mean amount of pressure you have to use on the brake lever to get the bike to slow. Best thing to do is to work on applying smooth but steady and hard pressure on the lever and becoming comfortable with braking hard. Have you taken your bike to a clean parking lot where you can practice hard braking? Work on getting on the brakes fast and smooth and braking hard, notice what your body is doing...do your arms tense up? Does your body move forward into the tank? How could you use your legs to help out when braking hard???

I hope this helped and if you can clarify a bit more about what parts of braking are hard we can keep the discussion going

Cheers,
Misti
(PS. forgive me if the above is confusing....i'm majorly sleep deprived these days and formulating and writing my thoughts is difficult

 

[Moto Ronto]

Thanks for responding, it's really appreciated! And all the best with the young family. We have a 6 year-old and a 3 year-old, so we're past the sleepless night stage, and have progressed into willfulness and tantrums...

Sure As a sportbike rider I lay off using the rear brake completely unless I end up off the track and need it to slow down in the dirt of gravel. We coach our students at the school to use front brake only as well and don't advocate braking mid corner unless needed in an emergency. It's so easy to lock up the rear brake and the front on sportbikes can easily handle all the braking required.

The majority of instructors I've had echo what you are saying exactly, so I guess I'm torn. I use the rear brake on the street to minimize stopping distances and I have been carrying over its use on the track so the facility is there in an emergency situation when I need it. I don't want to be confused with "two ways" of braking, one way for the track and another for the street. I guess I'm not sure what to do now, and I was kinda hoping you'd say to use the rear brake...

As for improving braking technique at track days...you say that increasing speed requires substantial increase in braking effort and by effort I'm assuming you mean amount of pressure you have to use on the brake lever to get the bike to slow.

Yes, that's exactly right, it's the maximum pressure (at the end of a progressive squeeze of the lever) that sometimes exceeds my comfort zone.

Best thing to do is to work on applying smooth but steady and hard pressure on the lever and becoming comfortable with braking hard. Have you taken your bike to a clean parking lot where you can practice hard braking? Work on getting on the brakes fast and smooth and braking hard, notice what your body is doing...do your arms tense up? Does your body move forward into the tank? How could you use your legs to help out when braking hard???

OK, I'm definitely going to do more parking lot practice. I think what you're saying about comfort level is spot on. I occasionally do quick stop practices, that is, from 40mph to a dead stop in as short a distance as I can. This requires quite a squeeze on the brakes, and the rear end comes off the ground a bit. At the track, for the same braking effort at the lever, the effect is less dramatic (because the initial speed is higher, say 60mph to 90mph), but my brain expects more to happen, hence my discomfort, I suppose.

I did not consider all the different sensations you mentioned, I have a feeling this will make a substantial difference. And I think I'm finally at the stage where I can be mindful of these sorts of things while riding.

I hope this helped and if you can clarify a bit more about what parts of braking are hard we can keep the discussion going

This definitely helped a lot! There's so much information floating around, but it makes an incredible difference to get it from a source who actually knows what she's doing. Thank you!

 

[Misti]

Thanks for responding, it's really appreciated! And all the best with the young family. We have a 6 year-old and a 3 year-old, so we're past the sleepless night stage, and have progressed into willfulness and tantrums...



The majority of instructors I've had echo what you are saying exactly, so I guess I'm torn. I use the rear brake on the street to minimize stopping distances and I have been carrying over its use on the track so the facility is there in an emergency situation when I need it. I don't want to be confused with "two ways" of braking, one way for the track and another for the street. I guess I'm not sure what to do now, and I was kinda hoping you'd say to use the rear brake...



Yes, that's exactly right, it's the maximum pressure (at the end of a progressive squeeze of the lever) that sometimes exceeds my comfort zone.



OK, I'm definitely going to do more parking lot practice. I think what you're saying about comfort level is spot on. I occasionally do quick stop practices, that is, from 40mph to a dead stop in as short a distance as I can. This requires quite a squeeze on the brakes, and the rear end comes off the ground a bit. At the track, for the same braking effort at the lever, the effect is less dramatic (because the initial speed is higher, say 60mph to 90mph), but my brain expects more to happen, hence my discomfort, I suppose.

I did not consider all the different sensations you mentioned, I have a feeling this will make a substantial difference. And I think I'm finally at the stage where I can be mindful of these sorts of things while riding.



This definitely helped a lot! There's so much information floating around, but it makes an incredible difference to get it from a source who actually knows what she's doing. Thank you!

Great, I'm glad this helped.

I just want to touch base on two things you said above, first you mentioned that you feel discomfort around "the maximum pressure (at the end of a progressive squeeze of the lever" and that when you do quick braking exercises after "quite a squeeze on the brakes, the rear end comes off the ground a bit"

This indicates to me that when you get on the brakes you use less pressure initially and the squeeze the lever harder and harder and give a final jab/squeeze at the last point of braking. Have you ever considered switching that around to do the hardest braking at the beginning? How might that change the outcome of your braking?

Misti



Take some time to practice what I suggested then get back to me about any improvements that you made or any more questions you might have.

 

[BimmerMike]

They recently added a day to their schedule this August at Barbour...I booked a one day school. Always wanted to see that track!

 

[infernobuster]

Just a quick bump to see if anyone else is headed down to VIR for CSBS in August

 

[vrus]

Sure As a sportbike rider I lay off using the rear brake completely unless I end up off the track and need it to slow down in the dirt of gravel. We coach our students at the school to use front brake only as well and don't advocate braking mid corner unless needed in an emergency. It's so easy to lock up the rear brake and the front on sportbikes can easily handle all the braking required.

heh, this forum just had a big fight about this very thing a few weeks ago.

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