Thinking of cancelling your TD/MM/Primmum policy? Want to know your Penalty/Refund?

VifferFun

VifferFun

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EDIT: This posting has been corrected and should hopefully be accurate.

EDIT: This posting is only intended for TD / MM / Primmum customers that are on the 7-month payment plan. If you are on a 12-month payment plan, then your policy has been grandfathered from an old Liberty Mutual account and this posting does not apply to you.


Hi Everyone,

Time and time again, GTAM members ask me why they aren't allowed to cancel their TD/MM/Primmum policy (or drop to Fire and Theft only) without paying a "penalty". Although TD/MM/Primmum charges equal premiums every month from March to September (i.e. 7 months), you actually "use up" the annual premium much faster over the Summer months than you do in the Spring/Fall months. TD/MM/Primmum uses the following premium-earning schedule for Motorcycles:

  • JAN: 0.0%
  • FEB: 0.0%
  • MAR: 5.0%
  • APR: 10.0%
  • MAY: 10.0%
  • JUN: 20.0%
  • JUL: 20.0%
  • AUG: 20.0%
  • SEP: 10.0%
  • OCT: 5.0%
  • NOV: 0.0%
  • DEC: 0.0%
Depending on when your policy took effect and when you decide to cancel, you will fall into one of two categories:

  • You OWE TD/MM/Primmum for premium that you "used up" but did not yet pay for
  • You are entitled to a REFUND because you have paid for more premium than you have "used up"
The beauty of the seven-month "pay-as-you-ride" payment plan is that once your policy renews, you will never have to worry about owing premium to your insurer (since you will then be "using up" premium slower than you are paying it. Once your policy is in renewal, you can cancel at any time and expect a refund.

Although I work in the insurance industry, I do not work for TD/MM/Primmum; however, based on their premium-earning schedule, I have put together the following document to help people understand what they will owe (or be refunded) should they decide to cancel their policy early. The twelve new business examples and one renewal example I have created below are for the following specific policy effective/renewal dates:

  • January 1st
  • February 1st
  • March 1st
  • April 1st
  • May 1st
  • June 1st
  • July 1st
  • August 1st
  • September 1st
  • October 1st
  • November 1st
  • December 1st
For each example, I show the percentage of the annual policy premium that you owe (or are refunded) at the end of each month of your policy.

If your policy has not yet renewed, find the New Business example below with the closest policy effective date to your own, and you can get an idea of what will happen should you decide to cancel your policy. If your policy has already renewed at least once, refer to the single "Renewal Business" example.

Enjoy!


TD-MM-PrimmumSchedule3.jpg
 
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mods, sticky pls ;)
 
didnt read the entire thing but this is seems like a good read. after my ninja was vandalized in late 08 i called up primmum and told them the story they denied repairs on my bikes because of some fine print...so i canceled my policy because winter was coming anyway. then i get a bill in the mail for the remainder of my policy...after fighting and fighting for weeks they sent my bill to a collection agency, needless to say i was forced to pay or it would hit my credit rating. the thing that sucked was now it was canceled, i owed the money for the rest of my policy and i had to fix the damages myself...i guess if i would have sat back and thought about it i would have just bit my tongue and call it a day, but now i had no insurance a bill and a bike i was going to have to fix myself so i lost huge...sucks because their rates were fairly priced for what i was riding.
 
zacm7 said:
didnt read the entire thing but this is seems like a good read. after my ninja was vandalized in late 08 i called up primmum and told them the story they denied repairs on my bikes because of some fine print...so i canceled my policy because winter was coming anyway. then i get a bill in the mail for the remainder of my policy...after fighting and fighting for weeks they sent my bill to a collection agency, needless to say i was forced to pay or it would hit my credit rating. the thing that sucked was now it was canceled, i owed the money for the rest of my policy and i had to fix the damages myself...i guess if i would have sat back and thought about it i would have just bit my tongue and call it a day, but now i had no insurance a bill and a bike i was going to have to fix myself so i lost huge...sucks because their rates were fairly priced for what i was riding.
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Since TD/MM/Primmum policies take effect March 31st, you will typically be entitled to a refund if you cancel in the Spring, and will owe the for unpaid premium if you cancel in the Summer. This is because premium is "used up" faster in the Summer than in the Spring, but you are paying a flat rate all season. If you take a look at the charts/examples it should be clear.

In short, it wasn't TD's fault that you owed them money if you cancelled sometime in the Summer and they have every right to send you to collections. You weren't paying for the remainder of the season, but rather paying for the portion of the season you had already rode but not yet paid for. Yes, it's confusing, and yet another reason why I think insurers should CHARGE premiums at the same rate that you USE UP premium. I don't know why State Farm and TD/MM/Primmum think it's necessary that every month's premium should be identical . . .
 
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VifferFun said:
In short, it wasn't TD's fault that you owed them money if you cancelled sometime in the Summer and they have every right to send you to collections. You weren't paying for the remainder of the season, but rather paying for the portion of the season you had already rode but but yet paid for. Yes, it's confusing :p
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i canceled in late October, policy anniversary date was some time in feb so i owed them 3 months...and they got it alright.
 
zacm7 said:
i canceled in late October, policy anniversary date was some time in feb so i owed them 3 months...and they got it alright.
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I find that a little confusing . . . are you not required to pay 8 equal monthly payments with TD/MM/Primmum, from March to October? Perhaps I am misinterpreting what people have told me.
 
i was paying 12 months out of the year was with them from the time i was 16 right up until oct 08. 12 equal payments for the entire year, i was never offered the option for 8 payments in the 5 years i was covered under primmum.

if i was under 8 payments though i would rather do oct-may, leaves more money for the track/trips. :D
 
Been shopping for quotes and it looks like TD is offering 12 monthly payments, nothing about 8 mentioned.
 
Skurj said:
Been shopping for quotes and it looks like TD is offering 12 monthly payments, nothing about 8 mentioned.
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Aw crap . . . it looks like I misinterpreted then.

So, to clarify, does a TD/MM/Primmum policy expire exactly one year after purchasing your policy, regardless of when the policy was purchased? I thought I have read that TD/Primmum/MM forces all motorcycles to renew on a given date. To be specific, if you purchase a policy in July, does it renew in July of the next year, or does it renew on February 28?

I have started another thread to dig into the issue:

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?p=1206936#post1206936
 
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for me (again havnt been with them since oct 08 ) when i bought the policy it was purchased on the 16th of the month and every month for a year i payed on the 16th, then i would renew my policy every year in feb, i would get a letter saying it went up "this amount" and then i would call and tell them thats fine. I dont know if anything has changed with their processes and how they deal with people now but thats what it was like for me 1.5 years ago.
 
zacm7 said:
for me (again havnt been with them since oct 08 ) when i bought the policy it was purchased on the 16th of the month and every month for a year i payed on the 16th, then i would renew my policy every year in feb, i would get a letter saying it went up "this amount" and then i would call and tell them thats fine. I dont know if anything has changed with their processes and how they deal with people now but thats what it was like for me 1.5 years ago.
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Did it renew every year on February 28th? Did the renewal date match the date when you first purchased insurance from them?
 
VifferFun said:
Did it renew every year on February 28th? Did the renewal date match the date when you first purchased insurance from them?
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thinking about it, it must have been the end of feb because i remember that my first month was always for a month and a half when i came out of my account.
 
zacm7 said:
i was paying 12 months out of the year was with them from the time i was 16 right up until oct 08. 12 equal payments for the entire year, i was never offered the option for 8 payments in the 5 years i was covered under primmum.

if i was under 8 payments though i would rather do oct-may, leaves more money for the track/trips. :D
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Were you with Liberty Mutual before you got switched over to TD by any chance?
 
So if I have this right, cancelling my insurance policy does not hurt my rating when I get future policies (they only care if they cancelled the policy, not me).

So I could ride October 1 to March 31 for 10% of the cost of an annual policy? Hmm, something to think about.

Does anyone know what the minimum retained premium is for TD?
 
GreyGhost said:
So if I have this right, cancelling my insurance policy does not hurt my rating when I get future policies (they only care if they cancelled the policy, not me).
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That is correct, but since your insurance is not continuous you might not be eligible for certain discounts.

GreyGhost said:
So I could ride October 1 to March 31 for 10% of the cost of an annual policy? Hmm, something to think about.
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Yes, and I think someone on the board is already doing this.

GreyGhost said:
Does anyone know what the minimum retained premium is for TD?
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I think I have heard it is $50, but don't quote me on this one.
 
OK, so I called and confirmed some of the questions posted in this and other threads regarding TD/MMI/Primmum... Here goes:

TD DOES NOT INSURE BIKES!!!(technicaly)
If you have a TD bike policy it is an old Liberty Mutual policy that was bought out by TD a few years ago... During the conversion, TD grandfathered some of the old Liberty rules and rates- (12 month payment plan and expiry date)... These policies are being slowly converted on Renewal... If you canx your TD bike policy, and want to set it up again down the road, they will set it up under Primmum.

Primmum/MMI policies are 12 month policies, with an 8 month riding season, and 7 month payment plan... Riding season starts March 1st and ends October 31st, but payments stop in September. The effective/renewal dates are always between Jan 29th, and Feb 28th- always before March 1st... If you set up your policy mid-term your policy will renew between these dates depending on the day of the month...
For example: policy starts April 17th- renewal Feb 17th, June 1st- Feb 1st, March 31st- Jan 31st(cause Feb has only 28 days)... After your first renewal, your policy will always be 12 months and will renew each year at the same time.

They do not have a first and last payment... Your first payment is in March, and last in September (7 equal payments)... If you set up your policy mid-term your payments will be pro-rated until September.

There is no canx fee/penalty- You pay for the number of days you were insured, based on the percentages listed in the original post (this only applies to sesonaly rated policies).

The minimum retained fee is $50.

Hope this helps, cheers.
 
Evil Knievel said:
OK, so I called and confirmed some of the questions posted in this and other threads regarding TD/MMI/Primmum... Here goes:

TD DOES NOT INSURE BIKES!!!(technicaly)
If you have a TD bike policy it is an old Liberty Mutual policy that was bought out by TD a few years ago... During the conversion, TD grandfathered some of the old Liberty rules and rates- (12 month payment plan and expiry date)... These policies are being slowly converted on Renewal... If you canx your TD bike policy, and want to set it up again down the road, they will set it up under Primmum.

Primmum/MMI policies are 12 month policies, with an 8 month riding season, and 7 month payment plan... Riding season starts March 1st and ends October 31st, but payments stop in September. The effective/renewal dates are always between Jan 29th, and Feb 28th- always before March 1st... If you set up your policy mid-term your policy will renew between these dates depending on the day of the month...
For example: policy starts April 17th- renewal Feb 17th, June 1st- Feb 1st, March 31st- Jan 31st(cause Feb has only 28 days)... After your first renewal, your policy will always be 12 months and will renew each year at the same time.

They do not have a first and last payment... Your first payment is in March, and last in September (7 equal payments)... If you set up your policy mid-term your payments will be pro-rated until September.

There is no canx fee/penalty- You pay for the number of days you were insured, based on the percentages listed in the original post (this only applies to sesonaly rated policies).

The minimum retained fee is $50.

Hope this helps, cheers.
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Very detailed, thanks for looking into this! When I have time, I will go through and correct my early--cancellation schedule.

Thanks again!
 
Evil Knievel said:
OK, so I called and confirmed some of the questions posted in this and other threads regarding TD/MMI/Primmum... Here goes:

TD DOES NOT INSURE BIKES!!!(technicaly)
If you have a TD bike policy it is an old Liberty Mutual policy that was bought out by TD a few years ago... During the conversion, TD grandfathered some of the old Liberty rules and rates- (12 month payment plan and expiry date)... These policies are being slowly converted on Renewal... If you canx your TD bike policy, and want to set it up again down the road, they will set it up under Primmum.

Primmum/MMI policies are 12 month policies, with an 8 month riding season, and 7 month payment plan... Riding season starts March 1st and ends October 31st, but payments stop in September. The effective/renewal dates are always between Jan 29th, and Feb 28th- always before March 1st... If you set up your policy mid-term your policy will renew between these dates depending on the day of the month...
For example: policy starts April 17th- renewal Feb 17th, June 1st- Feb 1st, March 31st- Jan 31st(cause Feb has only 28 days)... After your first renewal, your policy will always be 12 months and will renew each year at the same time.

They do not have a first and last payment... Your first payment is in March, and last in September (7 equal payments)... If you set up your policy mid-term your payments will be pro-rated until September.

There is no canx fee/penalty- You pay for the number of days you were insured, based on the percentages listed in the original post (this only applies to sesonaly rated policies).

The minimum retained fee is $50.

Hope this helps, cheers.
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Looks like they have some splainin to do! a quote of $755 at a rate of less than 65$ a month which is what their online service gave me doesn't work out to less than 12 payments...
 
Skurj said:
Looks like they have some splainin to do! a quote of $755 at a rate of less than 65$ a month which is what their online service gave me doesn't work out to less than 12 payments...
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Yeah, I did a quote online and got the same thing... I got quoted the annual premium and a monthly payment devided into 12... Although when you call the rep they will advise you of the 7 payment option.

I think they are doing this to give us a better comparison to what most people pay now- as most insurers have a 12 month payment plan. I get what they are doing, but I think it's misleading... They should just quote the annual premium only, or clearly explain their 7 month payment plan.

Just my $.02
 
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