Advanced Rider Training, Why dont you take it?

[Outlaws Justice]

Forum Sponsor

Thanks Gammaguy21, glad to hear you are taking something, From my perspective any and all training is good. I have not done Racer5 . I have done other track schools. Personally I also did Total Control before I did track school. Doing both I found that the Total Control class made my track school more valuable (I got more from it than the others in my track school) I also think that classes like Total Control are things that can help any rider, street and track, but is not focused on going fast, it is focused on making you a better rider and giving you skills and information to make you a better rider (Faster if you choose). For next season I am looking at maybe doing a cornerspin school, but it is in N.C. so a long trip!

 

[油井緋色]

So as Gary mentioned, the incentives aren't there to get people to show up.

Give people a proper incentive (or 'prize' as was referred to) and you'll have the turnout.

Depends on what kind of person you are. I'm very ambitious and focus on identifying and correcting my mistakes. There is no way I would be as competent at operating a motorcycle today had I not taken RTI -> Total Control -> Racer5 -> trackdays. Granted the courses are not cheap (Adding the 3 up is a little under $2000).

...the irony, however, is that the mistakes I make now hurt a hell of a lot more than when I didn't have confidence lol But that again goes back to what kind of person you are and how much you want to force yourself out of your comfort zone.

 

[Walms]

Speaking of which, my comfort zone has shrunk a huge amount since my teens, meaning I did allot of stupid (risky) stuff successfully on a motorcycle as a teenager that I won't even consider to do now.
This might help explain why it's not a high priority for someone like me to take advanced training presently.
I have to say though, I have a personal rule regarding bikes, I'd never own one that I couldn't lift from it's side on the ground... If I ever got the urge to own an 800 lb. bike, I maybe inclined to do a course then, but I doubt that would ever come to pass.

 

[nfq]

Speaking of which, my comfort zone has shrunk a huge amount since my teens, meaning I did allot of stupid (risky) stuff successfully on a motorcycle as a teenager that I won't even consider to do now.
This might help explain why it's not a high priority for someone like me to take advanced training presently.
I have to say though, I have a personal rule regarding bikes, I'd never own one that I couldn't lift from it's side on the ground... If I ever got the urge to own an 800 lb. bike, I maybe inclined to do a course then, but I doubt that would ever come to pass.

Yeah. Age happens.

 

[inreb]

Yeah. Age happens.

Is there anything more tiring than listening to an old guy talk about what they did back in the day? For the record we did some stupid **** and it's no hyperbole to suggest we're lucky to be alive. So conflicting now to look at old race film. Some guys paid a huge price trying to be a hero and for what? Only thing more pathetic is emulating that on the street.

 

[Walms]

Is there anything more tiring than listening to an old guy talk about what they did back in the day? For the record we did some stupid **** and it's no hyperbole to suggest we're lucky to be alive. So conflicting now to look at old race film. Some guys paid a huge price trying to be a hero and for what? Only thing more pathetic is emulating that on the street.

I'm unable to sort out if this is supposed to be a rub or what???
The point is, all of our comfort zones decrease as we gain more responsibility in life. I probably still have the talent to do the stuff that I did but choose not to do now, I never said if it was on the street or not...
I did it for the rush, not to be a hero, don't assume we are all the same bud.

 

[inreb]

I'm unable to sort out if this is supposed to be a rub or what???
The point is, all of our comfort zones decrease as we gain more responsibility in life. I probably still have the talent to do the stuff that I did but choose not to do now, I never said if it was on the street or not...
I did it for the rush, not to be a hero, don't assume we are all the same bud.

If it's a rub then I'm rubbing myself because my next sentence does the old guy shtick. I won't assume we're all the same but within a certain context we're all very similar. Beyond the rush of the activity itself how does one account for the psychological devastation of being .5 second behind? Let's not kid ourselves. Bud

 

[Walms]

Ok, got ya...

 

[Roomie]

I'll never think any course is a bad idea. I do get a laugh out of the "old guys" at work who think because a stroke of luck has kept them riding for 30 years or more, that it makes them "good riders". None of them have a clue and anyone could see bad habits within 2 minutes of seeing them. They've been doing it forever so it's okay though. I'm the one with something to learn because I'm not 60 and on a harley.

 

[Furpo]

Speaking of which, my comfort zone has shrunk a huge amount since my teens, meaning I did allot of stupid (risky) stuff successfully on a motorcycle as a teenager that I won't even consider to do now.
This might help explain why it's not a high priority for someone like me to take advanced training presently.
I have to say though, I have a personal rule regarding bikes, I'd never own one that I couldn't lift from it's side on the ground... If I ever got the urge to own an 800 lb. bike, I maybe inclined to do a course then, but I doubt that would ever come to pass.

This angle suggests that continuous rider development is intended to allow us to be more adventurous and take more risks. I would argue that training allows us to ride more skillfully whatever our behaviour and attitude on the road or track (and react better to those around us are still doing stupid stuff). Aging is probably reason enough to take more advanced or refresher courses: reminders of best practise; feedback on bad habits; new skills; and simply the fun and challenge of focusing again on good riding in a like-minded group. All this while our natural faculties are on the wane and experience compensates less and less.

I suspect that in Ontario driving is considered a right, once you have your G it's almost impossible to lose it, riders see crappy, complacent motorists every day, we are ten times more careful and attentive, and the thought that we have something to learn is a bit galling. I know several experienced drivers in the UK who were forced into remedial training because of demerit points. They all said it was a frightening eye-opener: their driving was actually sheyete.

I committed to one new or refresher course a year for life, preferably in April when I am rusty, cagers have forgotten all about us, and accidents are common.

I will add that weight of bike should not be a factor--its being able to lift myself off the ground that I'm worried about!

 

[CafeRay]

If it's a rub then I'm rubbing myself ..

euu

 

[inreb]

euu

Bounty

 

[CafeRay]

Bounty

euuu

 

[Joe Bass]

ME?
Why am I not trying to become a BETTER rider and in turn a SAFER and more RESPONSIBLE rider? The DEAL is that I'm a fall down STOOGE. It's hopeless. Thanks for the reminder

+1^^^ ?

 

[smergy]

since the OP asked a legitimate question, I'll try to give an honest answer.


From my experience, the average rider on the road does not have a sufficient level of skill to manage an unexpected scenario. Fundamentally, sending a person to ride around a parking lot for an M1 exit weekend, then setting them free on the road is woefully inadequate. (I have similar distaste for our car licensing system, but that's another story). I see lots of riders with many years of experience, yet insufficient control. As a student of Keith Codes said, they did not have N years of experience, they simply have 1 year of experience N times.


How do we improve control? We improve confidence and skill.Confidence and skill come from understanding a motorcycle's response and limit. How far can I lean? How hard can I accelerate? What about in the rain? How hard can I use the front brakes? These skills need to be reactions, not though-processes. Reactions come from training, just like any sport.


IMO, all advanced motorcycle training should take place at a track, with proper supervision/coaches, medical staff, and leathers. Not in a parking lot. This type of training should be mandatory, regardless of what type of motorcycle you ride. The problem is, how far can you honestly expect someone to ride a motorcycle in an environment without proper safety? Get the guy in jeans on a 800 pound bike to start locking up wheels or finding out where his chrome running boards are in a parking lot? No Thanks. I realize renting a track is expensive, but its the place to go to explore limits. A controlled environment.

Most will sight cost, but cost is relative. When you are lying there in the hospital for a week or a month, how much will you regret not spending the $300? Most riders improve more in 1 day on the track than a year on the street. I encourage all riders, fast or slow to take a day at the track.


The silver lining is skill stays with you for your whole life, regardless of what bike you have. Conversely, it is interesting to see how much people spend on chrome, HIDs, pipes, fuel controlers/etc, but don't invest in skill because it is 'expensive'. Racer 5 offers an excellent program with great value, FAST school is also good.


Not everyone wants to race or do trackdays, and that is perfectly ok.

 

[Roomie]

Most will sight cost, but cost is relative. When you are lying there in the hospital for a week or a month, how much will you regret not spending the $300? Most riders improve more in 1 day on the track than a year on the street. I encourage all riders, fast or slow to take a day at the track.

Just to add... even at 300 big deal but... If this was a very common/mandatory thing perhaps costs would drop.

 

[DECIMIS]

Great post smergy! Wish we could 'thumb up' posts just so people know their efforts are read and appreciated. Until then you get to read occasional posts like these! ccasion9:

 

[inreb]

If this was a very common/mandatory thing perhaps costs would drop.

Yes, that would be the case. Like mandatory insurance, there would be a larger pool of customers dramatically reducing the cost.

 

[Baggsy]

I just spent some time looking, and there are very few advanced courses in my area.

Winter driving courses are the same way.

For this situation, Goggle is not my friend, not even an acquaintance.

I'd definitely take more of them, if they were easier to find.
It would be fun to get the kids out on some of the courses.

I have no problems with an 800 lb bike, as little old ladies can lift them.

While a track would be a good place to test my limits, I would think it would be better to learn emergency maneuvers at lesser speeds, which would decrease the danger while learning.

Much of what's done on the track seems to run counter to street riding situations.

It's been said that you can tell a lot about a person's skill by watching their low speed maneuvers.

 

[omnivore]

Cost?
Please.
Same price as a loud pipe. Everyone seems to find the $ for one of those.

Forum Sponsor