Advanced Rider Training, Why dont you take it?

[Outlaws Justice]

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OTOH, to mildly shame long time riders into feeling they're somehow not "getting it" just to butter your own bread seems a little off putting. That's what it comes across like, whether intentional or not.

Not trying to shame anyone, asking some questions that we can use the feedback from at a national level to help riders, what are the problems, drawbacks etc.

FYI I work full time for an engineering firm in New York, helping riders improve does NOT butter my bread, Now as you were and lets get back to the discussion, problems and solutions.

 

[triniboy27]

Is there a complete list of advanced rider training courses and what each one covers off anywhere?

If not, i think it would be useful.

 

[GreyGhost]

I'd pay up to $100/hr to play on one of the bikes with giant training wheel arms to practice locking the front wheel and/or drifting. AFAIK, that's not a choice I have. The skills are useful to have and learning them on a normal bike is expensive (I know, you shouldn't be sliding on the street, but $#!t happens and traction changes).

 

[Outlaws Justice]

I'd pay up to $100/hr to play on one of the bikes with giant training wheel arms to practice locking the front wheel and/or drifting. AFAIK, that's not a choice I have. The skills are useful to have and learning them on a normal bike is expensive (I know, you shouldn't be sliding on the street, but $#!t happens and traction changes).

This might be the ticket for you!

http://www.skidbike.com/

 

[Outlaws Justice]

Is there a complete list of advanced rider training courses and what each one covers off anywhere?

If not, i think it would be useful.

I guess it would depend on what you want for training and what region you are looking in. The internet is your friend! I would love to know all the programs and locations that are available but so are so specialized and only offered in one place it is difficult.

 

[Gary]

OJ:
What may be missing......... is the prize at the end.
M1 courses offer the student / participant a discount on insurance premiums.
M2 exit offers the full M as a 'prize', and with that comes more ins benefits & freedoms.
I've never been to FAST (or any others) but I've seen trophies that certain riders have been awarded upon conclusion.
I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[inreb]

Why do YOU not look for and participate in rider training, Advanced training etc. Why are you not trying to become a better rider and in turn a safer and more responsible rider? If you have taken a basic Rider course for a license or to learn why did you not follow up with more and advanced training?

I know some of you think, "I am a good rider" if that is the case, good in comparison to who? Don't you want to be better? Even track day guys? If you are not mixing it up with Rossi you can be better, so again whats the deal?

ME?
Why am I not trying to become a BETTER rider and in turn a SAFER and more RESPONSIBLE rider? The DEAL is that I'm a fall down STOOGE. It's hopeless. Thanks for the reminder

 

[suzuki2000]

The M1 exit course was crap, didn't learn anything I didn't already know from riding in the dirt since I was young (I can understand you relating it to grade 3. I'm surprised that they let people on the road after taking it)...

Not everyone has had the opportunity to grow up playing on dirt bikes...

additionally, the truth is, once someone has completed the written test, they could ride on the street with you, with or without a course, with some obvious limitations.

The M1 courses are just a building block

 

[Outlaws Justice]

the truth is, once someone has completed the written test, they could ride on the street with you, with or without a course,

This is true here as well, and That is all some riders ever do, we have many who take the basic program as a way to get a license , then they never return and go about their merry way.

 

[nfq]

This is true here as well, and That is all some riders ever do, we have many who take the basic program as a way to get a license , then they never return and go about their merry way.

So as Gary mentioned, the incentives aren't there to get people to show up.

Give people a proper incentive (or 'prize' as was referred to) and you'll have the turnout.

 

[Outlaws Justice]

So as Gary mentioned, the incentives aren't there to get people to show up.

Give people a proper incentive (or 'prize' as was referred to) and you'll have the turnout.

I attend, The prize for me, is I become a better rider and improve my chances of making it home to the wife and kids each time I go out on the bike.

 

[Outlaws Justice]

Here in the states, some States offer training for free, but most have programs and charge, I would love to be able to offer classes cheaper, but Insurance and facility use is very costly. And from the feedback I am getting from other forums, even free classes riders do not show up too, why???????

 

[Walms]

It probably has to do with the perception of time being wasted. I've spent allot of cash in the past on general interest night school classes only to find out they always tailor the course to the lowest common denominator and I always felt that too much was review for me.

To be honest, if I had extra cash and time, it would be spent on track days sorting it out for myself... I have been riding for about 35 years though.
As said though, if I could save on insurance, I'd sign up just as quick as I signed my kids up for driver training.

 

[suzuki2000]

...even free classes riders do not show up too, why???????

equate garage as an equivalent to parking lot.

 

[LePhillou]

As mentionned earlier in this post: Driving in Germany requires a certain number of hours at a government approved training facility following (ideally) different courses.

I think that for motorcycles, something like that could/should be put in place. Show a minimum amount of skill/understanding or dont ride at all. So that all people getting a bike start with the same amount of training and understanding and are better drivers which (minimally) offsets the higher risk of riding by creating better riders.

Tiered insurance rates for different levels of training maybe? That could be one of the rewards encouraging people to get a much training as possible
No training = max premium
MSF = slightly reduced premium
Advanced training = better premium

The problem with that is, there are so many different applications to riding motorcycles that an all-encompassing advanced training would partially negate the benefits reaped by it as the cruiser rider doesnt need what the dual-sport riders needs who doesnt need what the supersport rider needs who doesnt need what the sport touring guy needs, etc.


TL;DR Insurance could be a very good incentive for people to get better training and making our roads safer. Its application/ translating it in the real world is another story.

 

[inreb]

As mentionned earlier in this post: Driving in Germany requires a certain number of hours at a government approved training facility following (ideally) different courses.

Germany is a different culture. We're a little more loosy goosy here. Everybody gives lip service and nods gravely in agreement to official structure, regulation and protocol but then the roof caves in despite an engineering report 2 weeks previous. This is why little school children have to walk down the sidewalk clutching a common rope.

 

[danp]

Here in the states, some States offer training for free, but most have programs and charge, I would love to be able to offer classes cheaper, but Insurance and facility use is very costly. And from the feedback I am getting from other forums, even free classes riders do not show up too, why???????

This season I took the Racer5 stage 1 intro to track course, and the dirt bike training course in horseshoe valley. Last season I took my M1 exit course, and the Lee Parks stage 1 course. Next season I plan to take the M2 exit course. Due to the high cost of these courses I can only afford to take 1 or 2 per season. Not many people can afford to drop $300-500 just like that. I can understand why the Racer5 course is so expensive, they need to reserve the track, and they provide you with the bike and the racing suit. But the other courses you bring your own bike and gear and ride around in a parking lot, I don't understand why it costs so much. Regarding facility use, is the high cost due to location? Would holding the events in some small town far away from the GTA lower the cost?

 

[Outlaws Justice]

I can understand why the Racer5 course is so expensive, they need to reserve the track, and they provide you with the bike and the racing suit. But the other courses you bring your own bike and gear and ride around in a parking lot, I don't understand why it costs so much. Regarding facility use, is the high cost due to location? Would holding the events in some small town far away from the GTA lower the cost?

I think it is more about insurance, especially in Canada Insurance is stupid high. And they want x number of dollars if you have 3 students or 20. and in a parking lot class they are more limited in how many people they can handle. Also when you get away from the largely populated area's less people want to attend.

 

[Matthew.Tremayne]

Not everyone has had the opportunity to grow up tearing sh*t up on dirt bikes...

additionally, the truth is, once someone has completed the written test, they could ride on the street with you if they can keep up, with or without a course, with some obvious limitations.

The M1 courses are just a building block that prevent instant death of newbs

Fixed

 

[gammaguy21]

I think it is more about insurance, especially in Canada Insurance is stupid high. And they want x number of dollars if you have 3 students or 20. and in a parking lot class they are more limited in how many people they can handle. Also when you get away from the largely populated area's less people want to attend.

Not sure I get why it's still as much as racer5? They also would have insurance to deal with plus they have the over head of track rental plus the bike/gear and maintence. There's a local Skilled Riders Course here that's offered for $90 including tax. I usually invest in rider training every year... but I chose racer5 over Total Control because it seemed the whole experience was less trouble.

Biggest issue I see is that these type of courses are in the "nice to have" and not the "must have" category.

This is the internet/ technology age... tons of information, tools and resource out there that can help a rider if he/she really wants to improve, once they've got the basics.

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