Worth it to fight $150 parking ticket?

[beverage]

Fine is $150 for parking in a fire route. How much time would I have to devote to fight this ticket?

I got the fine while picking up my son at the daycare tonight @ 5pm. There's a "driveway" at the daycare that circles near the door. The driveway is easily 3 buses wide, or 4 tightly packed (full-size buses could be parked along both sides of the driveway and a third bus could easily drive between them). There is a no parking / fire route sign on only one side of the "driveway". I was parked on the other side while I spent 10 minutes running inside to pick up my son. I came outside to find a parking enforcement officer placing a ticket on my windshield.

I don't normally park there but the designated daycare pickup parking spots are poorly lit on a good day, and due to pedestrian flow leaves a person somewhat vulnerable while they're busy strapping a kid into a child seat. Today is wet and it got dark early, and at the time of my pick-up the lot lights had not yet turned on. I chose to park near the entrance as many, many people do on a regular basis, and intentionally chose the side without the fire route sign.

I took photos and video at the time of the ticket as proof of the poor (i.e. non-existent) lighting, the placement of my car (along with others), and the placement of the parking sign.

Is the case worth fighting, and is it really worth the effort? $150 is a good chunk of coin, but the "worth the effort" part depends on how much time I'd need to spend fighting the ticket.

 

[nobbie48]

IMO the excuses won't do much. You should have planned better, carried an umbrella, blah, blah, etc. The fire route is brutal for tickets as the metermaids can go onto private property unlike for other offences.

That said I've heard that tickets get reduced so you might save a bit. Is it worth the time off work etc?

Good part is that it doesn't affect insurance so no financial hangover.

 

[Newblet]

Take it to court, say you weren't thinking and will take more care looking for appropriate parking in the future. They will likely lower the fine.

What city? and did you leave the car running? The reason I ask is because city by law officers [at least in Brampton] are required to take pictures of the offense with the appropriate signage in the picture. If you take it to court and say you weren't there and it was a mistake the picture will come out and you will look like a knob.

 

[beverage]

IMO the excuses won't do much. You should have planned better, carried an umbrella, blah, blah, etc. The fire route is brutal for tickets as the metermaids can go onto private property unlike for other offences.

That said I've heard that tickets get reduced so you might save a bit. Is it worth the time off work etc?

Good part is that it doesn't affect insurance so no financial hangover.

The rain was not an issue. It really wasn't raining hard enough to even require an umbrella. I only mentioned it as a contributor to the premature darkness along with the lack of parking lot lights, which leads to security risks. In fact, the designated daycare pick-up spots are more sheltered from the rain due to overhanging trees, but they also block any light (if they had actually been on), and provide a nice place for someone to lurk. My thoughts when parking were security, not convenience. I should speak to the school about the situation, because it is definitely not an arrangement that feels safe.

Take it to court, say you weren't thinking and will take more care looking for appropriate parking in the future. They will likely lower the fine.

What city? and did you leave the car running? The reason I ask is because city by law officers [at least in Brampton] are required to take pictures of the offense with the appropriate signage in the picture. If you take it to court and say you weren't there and it was a mistake the picture will come out and you will look like a knob.

It's Brampton. He did take pictures. But the funny part is that his pictures are guaranteed to not show my car and the fire route sign in the same picture. It was simply not possible given the location of my car in relation to the sign (opposite sides of a very wide "driveway") and the position he took photos from. He would have had to go back about 75 metres to get both in the same shot.

 

[AF4iK]

I always submit parking tickets for trial in the hopes that it'll never see court. Usually it does but sometimes a court date never comes. Either way, I never attend trial and just pay the fine if that's the case... or I pay it + the penalty fees when it comes to renewal time (I'm really bad with that lol)

 

[Newblet]

PM sent

 

[Rob MacLennan]

It's Brampton. He did take pictures. But the funny part is that his pictures are guaranteed to not show my car and the fire route sign in the same picture. It was simply not possible given the location of my car in relation to the sign (opposite sides of a very wide "driveway") and the position he took photos from. He would have had to go back about 75 metres to get both in the same shot.

If that's the case, fight it and take your own picture. If there are in fact separate pictures presented to show the sign and your vehicle, then this would go a long was to discredit the bylaw officer's testimony. You would also want to make sure that the sign was properly posted with the bylaw#, etc..

 

[gwelfmike]

The use of photographs in court is a tool to assist the officer or defendant to explain the area better Also, although the city may require the officers to take pictures it is not necessity for court proceedures. The officer could have just as easily put a little diagram in the notes or on the back of the ticket to refresh his or her memory if it ever went to trial.

The width of a fire route is a minumum of 6 metres, ( and changes for radius or access to sprinkler connections )so if you are parked on one side of the roadway and the sign is on the other side, it would be difficult for the officer to get a photograph showing both your vehicle and sign, and again, just because it is two pictures I do not see how that discredits the officer.

But yes, make sure the by-law number is on the fire route sign, it is really the only parking regulation that has to have the by-law number on it.

If its the $150 that you do not want to pay, mark it for trial, at the day of the trial, go to court early and talk to the prosecutor, tell them you did not realize you were parked in a fire route and that this was your error and you usually park in the parking lot but it was rainig, etc. etc. and that you will never do it it again. If you are willing to plea guilty with lesser fine, but remember under the POA the only reason why the JP can lower the fine is for economic hardships. But if it is a joint submission on a parking ticket I have only seen one JP intervine and that was for a handicap parking ticket. Also, pleading guilty and getting a lesser fine will get you out of the courtroom a lot faster, unless you want to hang around and watch the wheels of justice turn.

I would also like to see that all fire routes be at least a "NO STANDING" or "NO STOPPING" to eiliminate any question on if the person was stopped or parked.

 

[iFly55]

you need to carefully read the city by-law, they allow for vehicles to temporarily park in a fire-route while picking up or dropping off passengers and goods

visibility of the signs are also important

you could also request disclosure and check out the officer's notes, prior to proceeding to trial

you will most likely get a 50% off deal from the prosecutor which would be $75, a further reduction would require you to show financial hardship infront of the JP; you can also request extra time to pay possibly a split payment for 3-6 months

 

[Mina]

If you make more than $150/day at your job then it's not worth it and if you make less than $150 then fight it tooth and nail...

 

[gwelfmike]

you need to carefully read the city by-law, they allow for vehicles to temporarily park in a fire-route while picking up or dropping off passengers and goods

FYI - From the HTA

From the HTA-



“park” or “parking”, when prohibited, means the standing of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when standing temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or passengers; (“stationnement”)


“stand” or “standing”, when prohibited, means the halting of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except for the purpose of and while actually engaged in receiving or discharging passengers; (“immobilisation”)


“stop” or “stopping”, when prohibited, means the halting of a vehicle, even momentarily, whether occupied or not, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a police officer or of a traffic control sign or signal; (“arrêt”)


So if you were away from your vehilce for 10 minutes you are parked, you have to be actually engaged in the act of unloading passangers and or goods. Sitting in your vehicle with your four way flashers on is still considered parked.

 

[Brian P]

So I have a hypothetical question. (It's hypothetical because I saw the bylaw enforcement vehicle and opted to do something differently, but let's suppose I had done what I usually do and the bylaw officer came upon it.)

Where I used to live, the street had no overnight parking, the driveway was only big enough for one vehicle, and to get the other vehicle in the garage, you had to back one vehicle out, temporarily park it somewhere, get into the other vehicle, put that in the garage, go back to the first vehicle, put it back in the driveway.

Does that constitute "the standing of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when standing temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or passengers"?

Or is it illegal for me to swap vehicles around at night ... ? ? ?

Remember that even to go inside in order to wake someone else up to get them to move their vehicle, I still have to park mine in order to do that. Can't park it in the driveway because the other vehicle is blocking it, can't park on the street because it's no parking at that hour ...

 

[gwelfmike]

If the officer comes up to your vehicle and no one is around, and gets out his/her vehicle and has time to issue you a ticket and put it on the offending vehicle without being inturrupted and drives away, yes that would be considered park

How is the officer suppose to know that you are just getting someone up to move your vehicle? Why dont you just have a spare key and move the vehicle out of the driveway, put yours in the garage, then the other vehicle back in the driveway? If you did that, then that would considered temporary.






thetical because I saw the bylaw enforcement vehicle and opted to do something differently, but let's suppose I had done what I usually do and the bylaw officer came upon it.)

Where I used to live, the street had no overnight parking, the driveway was only big enough for one vehicle, and to get the other vehicle in the garage, you had to back one vehicle out, temporarily park it somewhere, get into the other vehicle, put that in the garage, go back to the first vehicle, put it back in the driveway.

Does that constitute "the standing of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when standing temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or passengers"?

Or is it illegal for me to swap vehicles around at night ... ? ? ?

Remember that even to go inside in order to wake someone else up to get them to move their vehicle, I still have to park mine in order to do that. Can't park it in the driveway because the other vehicle is blocking it, can't park on the street because it's no parking at that hour ...[/QUOTE]

 

[Brian P]

If the officer comes up to your vehicle and no one is around, and gets out his/her vehicle and has time to issue you a ticket and put it on the offending vehicle without being inturrupted and drives away, yes that would be considered park

How is the officer suppose to know that you are just getting someone up to move your vehicle? Why dont you just have a spare key and move the vehicle out of the driveway, put yours in the garage, then the other vehicle back in the driveway? If you did that, then that would considered temporary.

That's exactly what I would normally do. A spare key doesn't help, that's not the issue. The issue is that I had to switch the two vehicles around, which means stopping one on the street, getting out and into the one that's in the driveway (whether I have the key for it on hand, or the key is inside, makes little difference), moving that out and stopping *that* one on the street, then getting back into the first one and putting it in the garage, then getting back into the second one and putting it back in the driveway. There's no way for one person to do this without leaving the cars stopped on the street, if only for a minute or two at a time.

In that particular situation, I saw the bylaw enforcement vehicle on the street, so I just drove around the block, and the bylaw vehicle wasn't there when I came back ...

 

[mxs]

Are you serious that the vultures would give you a ticket for that??? That is just completely retarded. I do it all the time, but my street is a bit different ball game than yours ...

 

[gwelfmike]

I doubt that they are "vultures", it was just timing, you really think the by-law department has a Brian P radar and an alarm goes off at Central Headquarters when he is about to shuffle some cars around and the by-law SWAT team is dispatched to issue a $40.00 ticket?

Also, they could have been the area in response ( from the Police department) to another complaint, such as noise.

Anyway, if Brian P was switching vehicles around,he would be activily engaging in the unloading or loading of goods or passangers. If he went inside the house, woke up who ever, made coffee and watched the news while the other person woke up, had a shower, chatted with Brian P, and the moved the cars around, then it was parked.

Are you serious that the vultures would give you a ticket for that??? That is just completely retarded. I do it all the time, but my street is a bit different ball game than yours ...

 

[Brian P]

LOL ... The bylaw vehicle just happened to be there at the time, don't know why, didn't want to find out

 

[gwelfmike]

Don't you know, we get by-law violation tracker chips in us at birth.....

LOL ... The bylaw vehicle just happened to be there at the time, don't know why, didn't want to find out

 

[meester_jamie]

I doubt that they are "vultures", it was just timing, you really think the by-law department has a Brian P radar and an alarm goes off at Central Headquarters when he is about to shuffle some cars around and the by-law SWAT team is dispatched to issue a $40.00 ticket? Also, they could have been the area in response ( from the Police department) to another complaint, such as noise. .

ok ok,, I am not being difficult,, but as you mentioned.. the "Brian P radar" detector can be set off by a "fesant plucker" that lives next door.... so they are in the area in response to a complaint... that fesant plucker next door who called and complained that the guy next door is always parking in front of the entrance to his driveway.. and blocking them! .... had it happen to me in Brantford! crap! a town that really doesn't have parking problems!

 

[gwelfmike]

Well, I guess as long as your next door neighbour doesnt block your drive way there isnt a problem No?

So if you tried to be nice to your neighbour and ask them politely and they still block your driveway, what then?

Brantford does not have any parking problems, just like any other city, until your driveway gets blocked. ( and was born in Brantford)

ok ok,, I am not being difficult,, but as you mentioned.. the "Brian P radar" detector can be set off by a "fesant plucker" that lives next door.... so they are in the area in response to a complaint... that fesant plucker next door who called and complained that the guy next door is always parking in front of the entrance to his driveway.. and blocking them! .... had it happen to me in Brantford! crap! a town that really doesn't have parking problems!