When Insurance offers too little for a "total loss" settlement | GTAMotorcycle.com

When Insurance offers too little for a "total loss" settlement

sezme

Member
Follow-up on my story from here (+ Why we crash +): my insurance company has declared my bike a total loss. This is not surprising at this point, as the garage already showed me that their estimate to repair the bike (2014 Burgman 400) was about $13,000 – higher than the value of a brand new bike – lol.

So today, the insurance has come up with their settlement offer, and surprise, surprise, it's a real lowball. I looked at Kijiji and of the four listings I found in Ontario for a comparable bike (Burgman 400 within 2 model years), there was an average of around $5,500 (+ HST of course). TD insurance has offered me $3750, which I find kind of insulting. They claim this is based on JD Power estimates for "similar vehicles listed and sold for in your area".

I am planning to dispute the settlement by arguing my case and sending screenshots/links to listings. Any other advice? (For what it's worth, my bike was reported as being in "good" condition by the appraiser.)

What is my recourse if they refuse to negotiate, or come back with another unacceptable offer? I really can't come close to replacing my bike with the amount they offered.
 

ifiddles

Well-known member
I had a write off with TD in 2016, and they lowballed me too...I went back with comparables from kijiji (year, model and mileage) and they met my rebuttal...got what I wanted...good luck...
 

TK4

Well-known member
That's how the game is played - the appraiser presents you with a lowball offer, if you accept it they're done.
Present them with a few comparable current market value machines and don't settle until they step up.
I went through this in January (car rear ended me and mine was written off), they offered me half of what it was worth.
Eventually they paid, but it was pulling teeth.
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
Always sucks to hear these stories.

I was generously compensated on mine, 1st offer. Wish we all had such luck..
 

Trials

Well-known member
See, you should have immediately gone out, bought an equal replacement by your estimation and sued for the entire cost.


"They claim this is based on JD Power estimates for "similar vehicles listed and sold for in your area". "
JD Power of California ! :ROFLMAO: what do they know about the canadian $ our tax system and the price of motorcycles here?
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Present 3 comparables from Auto Trader and they will match the price + GST. As mentioned above, it's a game, that's how it's played.
 

sezme

Member
it's a game, that's how it's played.

Sad that they feel the need to play these games with their customers, but I’ll play if that’s what’s required.

Appreciate the advice from everyone. I’ll follow
up with the adjuster tomorrow. As far as suing for the price of the bike, the driver who caused the collision was from the U.S., so that option seems even more complicated than it would otherwise be. And anyway I’d rather not bog down our court system if possible, nor do I want to spend any time in court if I can avoid it. I spent 2.5 months as a juror already this year and I’ve had my fill.
 

J_F

gringo diablo
Site Supporter
JD Power used vehicle book value is a dealer driven database
so it's going to represent wholesale value

and with the low number of bikes in this jurisdiction
the values are not going to be meaningful

the adjuster has to start somewhere, and that's an easy starting point
they are are not going to pour over Kijiji listings and arrive at a comparable average retail price

that is something you can do OP
make sure the listings are an apples to apples comparison

put together your list and arrive at an average price
then make a case why you should be in the upper range

the adjuster will support this if it's in reason
they are given a range from the Co but instructed to start low
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Sad that they feel the need to play these games with their customers, but I’ll play if that’s what’s required.

Appreciate the advice from everyone. I’ll follow
up with the adjuster tomorrow. As far as suing for the price of the bike, the driver who caused the collision was from the U.S., so that option seems even more complicated than it would otherwise be. And anyway I’d rather not bog down our court system if possible, nor do I want to spend any time in court if I can avoid it. I spent 2.5 months as a juror already this year and I’ve had my fill.
It's not a one sided game. A huge part of your insurance comes from folks who fraudulently destroy property to claim the loss. Bike tips over gets $1500 worth of scratches -- roll it down the road to get another $1500 worth of scratches and collect the writeoff.

Insurers, just like the insured, do what they can to maximize their position. It would be great if the gamesmanship could be taken out -- don't look at consumers and insurers for that move, make it an election issue next time around.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
Yep, counter their offer with "real world" prices of a comparable make/model/year/mileage/condition replacement, plus all the expenses including the taxes and costs of getting it licensed and plated again.

You by no means have to take their first offer.

My sister went back and forth with her insurer relentlessly a few years ago when she got side swiped in her car and it was deemed a write off - they tried to lowball her huge initially, but she wasn't going to be pushed around. Eventually they decided she wasn't going to roll over and play dead and made her whole on the payout.
 

sezme

Member
Thanks, everyone. I’ve made my counter. Nearly double their offer. I’ll stick to my guns. I hadn’t realized that this process often involves so much negotiation. My eyes have been opened!
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Thanks, everyone. I’ve made my counter. Nearly double their offer. I’ll stick to my guns. I hadn’t realized that this process often involves so much negotiation. My eyes have been opened!
So what's the next ride going to be?
 

sezme

Member
So what's the next ride going to be?
Boring, but I really did like my old bike. So my plan is to find pretty much the same thing. I could be convinced to go in another direction, but what I like about the Burgman is storage (62 litres under the seat) and fuel economy. If I could equal those features in a bike with the the same or more power, I’d consider it. The Honda NC700X is almost tempting if I added a good top box.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Follow-up on my story from here (+ Why we crash +): my insurance company has declared my bike a total loss. This is not surprising at this point, as the garage already showed me that their estimate to repair the bike (2014 Burgman 400) was about $13,000 – higher than the value of a brand new bike – lol.

So today, the insurance has come up with their settlement offer, and surprise, surprise, it's a real lowball. I looked at Kijiji and of the four listings I found in Ontario for a comparable bike (Burgman 400 within 2 model years), there was an average of around $5,500 (+ HST of course). TD insurance has offered me $3750, which I find kind of insulting. They claim this is based on JD Power estimates for "similar vehicles listed and sold for in your area".

I am planning to dispute the settlement by arguing my case and sending screenshots/links to listings. Any other advice? (For what it's worth, my bike was reported as being in "good" condition by the appraiser.)

What is my recourse if they refuse to negotiate, or come back with another unacceptable offer? I really can't come close to replacing my bike with the amount they offered.
I just looked over your initial post again.

Thanks, everyone. I’ve made my counter. Nearly double their offer. I’ll stick to my guns. I hadn’t realized that this process often involves so much negotiation. My eyes have been opened!
You have to be careful, you're not negotiating with Rick at Pawn Stars. If the initial offer was $3750 and you countered at $7500 the adjuster might roll his eyes, toss your file aside and play hard ball.

It's not a popular bike which makes it harder to value -- a new 2019 is $8200, the selling price on a 5 year old scooter is closer to 1/2 that. There are a few available in the 2014-2016 on Kijiji and Autotrader, they are less then $5500 asking and all have less than 8000km. Used '18 and '19s are asking less than 6K.

You should be able to buy a AN500 2014 with less than 10k Km for $5K or less. If you get a rebuttal of 5K+GST, I'd cut and run.
 

sezme

Member
I take your point, but I believe my ask was fair and backed up with facts. (Also, it was less than $7500.)

I looked for all the listings in Ontario for the same model bike 2012-2016 (so a two year range above and below mine). There were four listings, three from dealers, with an average price a bit over $5500. I took the average, added hst, paperwork fees and +$200 towards a replacement helmet.

It’s in their hands now. They can counter and I’ll take it under advisement. I’m not trying to use this as an opportunity to upgrade at their expense. On the other hand, if I have to end up with a bike in worse shape than the one I had before, I should be compensated for my loss. My priority is being able to replace like with like as much as possible and as soon as possible without having to spend more money. That’s why we carry insurance.
 

sezme

Member
Also, there are some used 2018s for less than $6000 in Montreal it’s true, but that doesn’t do me much good. It’s impractical for me to look much outside the GTA.
 

Trials

Well-known member
Boring, but I really did like my old bike. So my plan is to find pretty much the same thing. I could be convinced to go in another direction, but what I like about the Burgman is storage (62 litres under the seat) and fuel economy. If I could equal those features in a bike with the the same or more power, I’d consider it. The Honda NC700X is almost tempting if I added a good top box.
NC = New Concept is basically half a small car engine, is based on a scooter platform,
imho would be a very good replacement for the Bergman ;) it has a clutch and real gears and tons of storage space (y)

... skip the top box they destroy any bikes handling, that is no place to carry luggage way up there on the tail behind the passenger.
 

PrivatePilot

Ironus Butticus
Site Supporter
I looked for all the listings in Ontario for the same model bike 2012-2016 (so a two year range above and below mine). There were four listings, three from dealers, with an average price a bit over $5500. I took the average, added hst, paperwork fees and +$200 towards a replacement helmet.
Sounds like exactly what I'd do myself, and honestly, seems quite fair.

Yes, the cost of any ruined gear goes along with the claim - helmet, absolutely, assuming it was damaged or even hit.
 

Iceman

Well-known member
Even when I crashed my truck, the insurance company paid replacement value for the clothes I was wearing and the tools in my truck as it was all burnt in the fire.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
 

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