Can't forget how much everything is taxed more in the EU also, higher costs of living for smaller residences and less saved after taxes on income and consumer goods. Also there is not as much opportunity there, many millenials in Italy still live with their parents. North Americans would probably drop their jaw at the benefits etc but they gotta look at the big picture.
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What is H-D up to ?
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
Can't forget how much everything is taxed more in the EU also, higher costs of living for smaller residences and less saved after taxes on income and consumer goods. Also there is not as much opportunity there, many millenials in Italy still live with their parents. North Americans would probably drop their jaw at the benefits etc but they gotta look at the big picture.
I82l8
Well-known member
Exactly, nothing is free, you pay for it one way or the other. We really don't have it that bad on this side of the pond. Hence why I never looked back after coming here some 25 years ago from Belgium
Roadghost
Well-known member
HD workers get paid very well. They're UAW I think. I can't compare BMW to HD for anything, because I don't have access to their balance sheets. I do know that BMW is at the bottom rung for reliability if Consumer Reports is anything to go by. So is Ducati. I think HD places 5th for reliability. I don't consider the plastic-fantastic BMWs to be in the same league as Harley Davidson for component quality. IMO, the paintwork, brightwork, fit and finish on the Harleys is beyond compare. The big comfortable seats, lavish foot rests, and absence of cheap plastic are also noteworthy. I've looked closely at motorcycles across the market and none compare to Harley Davidson. It's a very unique motorcycle. The styling and price may not be for the new generation, but I would rather HD become smaller niche manufacturer than trying to please the plastic fantastic trendy types.
I attended the HD factory tour in York, PA this past June. They were bragging about their great frames and said they've been using the same frame on their fullsize bikes since 2006 iirc. Technologically the rest of the bike is mostly unchanged for the past 20+ years.
Even the new M8 engine isn't much better performance-wise (fuel efficiency or power) compared to the competition or even to the last TC motor that they used for a LONG time.
They can't survive on their image anymore. New buyers are now wanting more tech-rich bikes and HD is slow to evolve. This has to change if they wish to survive.
BMW has a really nice bagger and I know a few HD fanboys that are jumping ship for one.
Even the new M8 engine isn't much better performance-wise (fuel efficiency or power) compared to the competition or even to the last TC motor that they used for a LONG time.
They can't survive on their image anymore. New buyers are now wanting more tech-rich bikes and HD is slow to evolve. This has to change if they wish to survive.
BMW has a really nice bagger and I know a few HD fanboys that are jumping ship for one.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I'm with you on the Euro bikes, I wont ride them because I value dependability, ruggedness and longevity. I don't like touring with riders on euro bikes -- their downtime drives me crazy.
As for HD, they have to change. I think the right thing to do is to acquire a smaller brand and keep both running. Leave HD as the parent, kind of like Chrysler/Fiat -- leave the segmentation alone, have one big company managing brands. Save the HD brand for the heavy cruisers and buy KTM for the street, dirt and ADV lines.
As for HD being unique, they have some unique attributes however the bikes are no longer unique. The Jap heavies and Indian are producing better motorcycles on all performance and technical measures -- HD still dominates on style and brand cache. That said, $$$ & buyers are increasingly choosing other heavy brands - -particularly the brand loyal who have graduated from other segments of the motorcycle market.
At this crossroads, HD has decided the heritage business model won't produce enough buyers to sustain their business. Something must change, either they enter more market segments or continually downsize as their primary markets shrink.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
They will soon have to decide whether gagetry is worth the cost, aggravation and grief. Ever wonder why you see hundreds of Goldwings on the road for every K1600?
Probably same reason you see hundreds of Accords for every M2. Not everybody wants to be a bit different, and thats ok
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