Use of Signals While Stopped

Emefef · Sep 6, 2012

During an M2 Exit test, candidates are required to execute a roadside stop. A rider on a bike equipped with hazard lights must use them, or it is scored as an error. If the bike is not so equipped, the examiner can't score an error for the signals.

This changed shortly after graduated licencing was introduced in Ontario. I'm not certain, but I believe it was because arguments were made from both camps about whether a rider should leave their right signal on for better visibility, or turn it off. Originally it was an error to leave it on, but when it was changed we decided our program should take a position and coach it one way.

It's my opinion, and our program's recommendation, that the signal be turned off. The goal in a roadside stop is to get "as far off the travelled portion of the roadway as possible." Generally, as close to the curb as possible, and in the case of a highway with a shoulder, on the shoulder if it's stable. We've all seen the crazy videos of state troopers or the vehicles they've pulled over getting hit. Target fixation is a terrible thing, and I don't believe I need to attract any more attention at the side of the road. I would rather other motorists didn't see me unless I was trying to flag them down.

Hazard lights are different. When a person sees hazard lights flashing ahead, they know they need to slow down, or they know they'll want to go around a slow moving or stopped vehicle. With a flashing signal, they may simply assume the vehicle ahead is executing a lane change or turning off the roadway, because there is no way to tell from a distance that the vehicle is actually stopped.

When we were trying to decide which position to take, I checked the HTA, and I believe the section related to the use of signals is clear, and that subsection (7) would mean that sitting at the right side of the road with a right signal activated is wrong:

 142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (1).

Signal when moving from parked position
(2) The driver or operator of a vehicle parked or stopped on the highway before setting the vehicle in motion shall first see that the movement can be made in safety,
and, if in turning the vehicle the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement, shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (2).

Mode of signalling turn
(3) The signal required in subsections (1) and (2) shall be given either by means of the hand and arm in the manner herein specified or by a mechanical or electrical
signal device as described in subsection (6). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (3).

How to signal manually
(4) When the signal is given by means of the hand and arm, the driver or operator shall indicate his or her intention to turn,
(a) to the left, by extending the hand and arm horizontally and beyond the left side of the vehicle; or
(b) to the right, by extending the hand and arm upward and beyond the left side of the vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (4).

Idem
(5) [deleted: allowance for using right arm on a bicycle.]

Requirements for signalling device
(6) A mechanical or electrical signal device shall clearly indicate the intention to turn, shall be visible and understandable during day-time and night-time from the front and from the rear of the vehicle for a distance of 30 metres, and shall be self-illuminated when used at any time from one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (6).

Signalling devices to be used only for purpose of indicating turn
(7) No person while operating or in control of a vehicle upon a highway shall actuate the mechanical or electrical device referred to in subsection (6) for any purpose other than to indicate a movement referred to in subsection (1) or (2). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (7).

Now I wouldn't expect someone to get a ticket for this unless it created enough confusion to cause a collision, and even then I would expect it more likely that the other motorist would be at fault. I've seen school buses sitting still with a right flasher on, and although I haven't asked any school bus drivers it does seem practical for one reason - to prevent confusion. A motorist that sees a school bus with the hazard lights flashing may believe the bus is loading or unloading. Maybe the buses have all the lights wired together. Either way, I've convinced myself it makes sense.

I understand there are different views about whether it's a great idea or not, and my intention isn't to start that debate. I'm just curious if anyone has had experience with this - charged, or heard of a charge, or what views people have on the interpretation of the Act and the likelihood of a charge. Finally, what do other programs teach? It's not an error on the test, but do you take a position on right/wrong? When I teach it, I explain (very generally) the two sides of the argument, my interpretation of the Act (presented as just that), the MTO scoring criteria, and finally our recommendation. Then the riders can make up their own minds.
MFF

Brian P · Sep 6, 2012

Hmmm, I think I understand where you are coming from. You are supposed to signal right in advance of pulling off the roadway (because it is, in effect, a lane change), and you are supposed to signal left in advance of pulling away and changing into the traffic lane from the shoulder, but you're not supposed to use it for anything else.

The wording in that last paragraph "no person ... shall actuate ..." - this in effect means that you are not supposed to turn (activate/actuate) the signal ON for any other purpose ... but it might not necessarily cover leaving the signal on after you have completed the move that the signal was given for (i.e. signalling right to pull off the roadway).

So you can signal right, pull off the roadway, leave the right signal on (or not), until such time as you plan to pull back onto the roadway, at which time you have to signal left.

Personally, I'd rather leave the signal flashing, so that people approaching from behind can understand that I'm not planning to move left (out into traffic). I don't own a bike that has 4-way hazard flashers.

Emefef · Sep 6, 2012

Brian P said:
... but it might not necessarily cover leaving the signal on after you have completed the move that the signal was given for (i.e. signalling right to pull off the roadway).

That's another way to look at it. In my view, once you've moved over, you've completed what you originally intended and indicated. If you drove along the shoulder, I think it leaving it on may be more justifiable since you could be moving further right at the earliest opportunity. If you're stopped, though, what's your intention? I would think at that point leaving it on is the same, but the language in that clause could make a difference. "No person shall actuate" could be interpreted much differently than "No person shall display".

That's why I wasn't trying to spark the debate - I turn mine off and hope that nobody even notices I'm there. Less opportunity for confusion or target fixation. I don't know if there are any statistics to support or prove either approach as being the safer one, which is why I was curious about the legal side.

mikemacd · Sep 6, 2012

http://www.simonborys.ca/2010/05/is-signalling-always-required/

Sabex · Sep 7, 2012

I'll have to check again: but I believe in the MTOs motorcycle handbook it says to leave the right blinker on.

EDIT: It doesn't say to leave your signal on. It says if your motorcycle has 4 way flashers to turn off your turn signal and put on the four ways.
It doesn't say whether you leave it on, or turn it off if you do not. I would assume it wants you to leave it turned on.

bboySushi · Sep 7, 2012

and what if you have a black bike, black gear and really crappy after market brake lights? You're toast if there's traffic and someone wants to jump ahead using the shoulder (or if a minivan drives in the right lane)

Emefef · Sep 7, 2012

mikemacd said:
http://www.simonborys.ca/2010/05/is-signalling-always-required/

This case is more about whether the signal was required. I'm more curious about the application of section that restricts the use of signals to leaving or entering a roadway, or changing lanes. Once you've done that, are you technically committing an offence by sitting with your signal on when you have no intention to move to the right?

With respect to the black gear at night on the shoulder with crappy after market brake lights...well that's another topic. I didn't pose the question to debate whether it's safer - it's probably been debated here several times over the years. In most discussions I've had, people feel VERY strongly one way or the other, with very little room to be persuaded. I believe that's why it is no longer considered an error in the M2 Exit scoring criteria.

00ninja · Sep 7, 2012

I passed my M2 exit last month. During the test I was required to perform a road side stop. I left the right signal on, got off the bike and walked around and stood on the curb. The tester then told me to get back on my bike and proceed safely back into moving traffic. That said, when I looked at my test report he marked it as having been done correctly.

BTW, my bike doesn't have 4-way flashers.

Emefef · Sep 7, 2012

00ninja said:
I passed my M2 exit last month. During the test I was required to perform a road side stop. I left the right signal on, got off the bike and walked around and stood on the curb. The tester then told me to get back on my bike and proceed safely back into moving traffic. That said, when I looked at my test report he marked it as having been done correctly.

BTW, my bike doesn't have 4-way flashers.

Yes - if your bike does not have 4-way flashers, the examiner cannot score a signal error. Whether you leave the right one on, or turn it off, it just isn't marked. The examiner would have asked you if the bike was so equipped so he/she knows whether an error has been made.

00ninja · Sep 7, 2012

Emefef said:
Yes - if your bike does not have 4-way flashers, the examiner cannot score a signal error. Whether you leave the right one on, or turn it off, it just isn't marked. The examiner would have asked you if the bike was so equipped so he/she knows whether an error has been made.

Come to think of it he did look at my right handle bar during the pre-test inspection of the bike.

Use of Signals While Stopped

Emefef

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Brian P

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Emefef

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mikemacd

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Sabex

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bboySushi

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Emefef

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00ninja

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Emefef

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00ninja

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