Upgrading to R3 from a Ninja 250?

I own a 250 and I have never ridden a bigger bike. I was travelling near the Airport on a windy day around 70km/h and the gusting side winds was pushing my ninja 250 all over the place! Being a new rider, it was scary to have to battle with the wind on such a light bike. I can't imagine how the ninja 250 will handle on the highway in a windy day..

Every bike gets blown around in crosswinds to some extent. A modern 600-class sport bike isn't *that* much heavier than a 250 (yes, it's 20 - 30 kg more but that's ~10% of the combined bike plus typical rider) and the fairing area is, if anything, bigger on the 600. The one potential advantage of the 600 is that there is at least some possibility that the designers spent more time in the wind tunnel.

"Road hugging weight" is A Bad Thing. (There was a time in the 1970's when Ford was trying to convince people otherwise - basically making excuses for why a Pinto used more gas than its more modern competitors)
 
I own a 250 and I have never ridden a bigger bike. I was travelling near the Airport on a windy day around 70km/h and the gusting side winds was pushing my ninja 250 all over the place! Being a new rider, it was scary to have to battle with the wind on such a light bike. I can't imagine how the ninja 250 will handle on the highway in a windy day..

Maybe Ninja 250Rs have more issues in this regard, but when I had my CBR250RA (for nearly 2.5 years), I never once had an issue in the end, except when coming to a stop sometimes. If you are loose on the bars, the bike will lean into the wind but track straight, so you just let it do it's thing and go on your way. Also never once had an issue passing semis that people always warned me about.

As for the highway, I'd be lying if I said it was completely enjoyable, but it could easily do highway flow speeds, with a (very) little left in reserve. The big annoyances would be if someone braked in front for no reason, causing you to slow down and have to drop a gear to try to get back up to speed (since it takes a 250 some time to do so). Also, any long commutes did get a little annoying sitting at around 11,000rpm for 2-3 hours on end. Don't get me wrong, I'd take my CBR650F hands down any day of the week over the 250 on the highway...but the 250 was still a very capable little machine, and actually more fun in the twisties.
 
OP I had a Ninja 250r for approx. 3 years and put around 20,000 kms on it before I decided to upgrade. I can understand some of your concerns with regards to highway use. As mentioned above the bike has sufficient power to safely cruise on the highway. You just have to learn how to best make use of what is available. You may have to time your moves in advance, shift down prior to passing etc. You wont have the instant power and acceleration of a more powerfull bike. But you you do learn is how to read the traffic around you better. The Ninja 250r is an excellent all around city use bike and excellent bike for more fun twistie type roads.

Having said all that I did upgrade to a Ninja 650r mainly because I started to ride to work and used the 407 for long streches. A larger bike just made my daily commute more comfortable. Larger heavier bike woth more torque-power.

Give the Ninja 250 more time. You'll be surprised how much you will learn from it. Just my opinion, but unless you go to at least a 500-600 cc range. I doubt you will notice much an improvement in performance for daily type riding.

I will probably be taking the same route as you. Thanks for the reponse brother.
 
Its been 3 season on my ninja 300 so far and I've managed to brake and down shift, lean into turns using trail braking, ride it hard just about any where....

i've also manage to dump it at speed.

Just goes to show I am sooo not ready to ride SS...although my heart's ready to pounce on one...

Just stay with your 250 and upgrade after a decade like some one said...

You will be AMAZED what your 250 can do...no jokes! Been on rides and that thing'll put 600 riders to shame! ( atleast those who upgrade after 2 months of riding their 250 :P)
 
Depends on what you want to do and how long you want to keep your bike for. The advantage of bigger bore bikes is that you don't sustain high revs at hi way speeds over longer distances, so less wear and tear on the engine over time. A small engine is going to suffer more riding at high rpm for long periods of time than a big bore engine at lower rpm. That's why so many 5/600 ' s are beat to crap after 30,000km while 1000 CC's and above can go 100/200,000 km no problem...
 
Depends on what you want to do and how long you want to keep your bike for. The advantage of bigger bore bikes is that you don't sustain high revs at hi way speeds over longer distances, so less wear and tear on the engine over time. A small engine is going to suffer more riding at high rpm for long periods of time than a big bore engine at lower rpm. That's why so many 5/600 ' s are beat to crap after 30,000km while 1000 CC's and above can go 100/200,000 km no problem...

I wouldn't count on that being the case. Decades ago, people said the same thing about those tiny fast-spinning aluminum Honda car engines - that they wouldn't last as long as their tried-and-true Chevy big block V8. Look how that turned out.

I know of a '99 Yamaha R6 with just short of 100,000 km on it. I know of a cbr125 which had (I think) around 65,000 km on it when the owner sold it. I know of a Ninja 250 that has over 80,000 km on it (and it is someone who participated in this thread). I know of an EX500 with 110,000 km on it. My Fizzer 400 is "total mileage unknown" but it had at least 50,000 km plus 3 roadracing seasons for the previous owner when I had it apart to freshen it up and fix a known Yamaha OEM assembly flaw. And that brings up the real issue ...

Neglect, abuse, weak points in the design, and sometimes just plain bad luck are much greater factors for how long these engines will last, than what the displacement is.

Honda had issues with high oil consumption on some cbr1000 engines, but the 600s have been bulletproof except for those infernal timing chain tensioners.

Yamaha not bothering to screw in a pair of oil-restrictor jets all the way into the bottom of the threads has prematurely taken out many crankshafts and con-rods on FZR400 and FZR250 engines. (It generally lasted longer than the warranty ...) Unfortunately, the only way to inspect and correct this fault so that it never happens again is to take the engine *completely* apart.

I had my 2004 ZX10R engine apart to replace a pair of thrust washers that they made of the wrong material. (They fixed this for 2005) The engine was practically new-looking inside, at 70,000 km, except for those thrust washers. If one of those thrust washers lets go, the alternator rotor contacts the stator and throws magnetic metal shrapnel all over the inside of the engine.

None of these are displacement-related ... they're just things that for whatever reason, the manufacturer did not get sorted out prior to production - and in some cases, never bothered to fix ...
 
I should add that there is a well-known member of this forum who has a cbr600 with WELL over 100,000 km on it, and it has never been apart. And there's another member of this forum who put 200,000 km on a Vstrom (same engine as SV650). I think he retired that bike and bought another one ...
 
I should add that there is a well-known member of this forum who has a cbr600 with WELL over 100,000 km on it, and it has never been apart. And there's another member of this forum who put 200,000 km on a Vstrom (same engine as SV650). I think he retired that bike and bought another one ...
my buddy had a 2000 r6 with 75km on it up until it just got stolen a couple days ago.

SS motors will run forever if maintained. they are made to take a beating so what most people put them through on the street is a cake walk. cam chains tensioners always go bad on them though so ive slowly been switching all the frequent bikes that come through my garage to the manual tensioners.

as for the wind.. well ive never ridden a 250... kinda skipped right over it years ago but i know my 600 gets blown around sometimes too. i dont think the weight is all that much different to be honest though.

2007 ninja 250 is 304 lbs dry....cbr600rr is 341...rider weight compensates for that easily...add a backpack and a good dinner basically even.
hell ive seen smaller cars get blown around on the highway... i remember back when i had a CTS that thing would just stick to the ground and cut through wind (man i loved that car...)... i would see cars all over the road and thought wtf is wrong with them..then looked and saw trees bent over in half. same thing with my truck, that thing is a tank a litttle gust i barely feel even with the bike in the back acting as a sail.
 
The 250r did get blown around alot easier for me than my current 650r. I always felt alot more exhausted after my commute on the highway. I cant say for sure its becuase of the additional 40-50 lbs, different bike shape, larger tires, larger windscreen etc. But it does make a noticeable difference. My body position is about the same on both bikes (installed lower bars on the 650).

That to me was one of the main reasons I upgraded. When riding at slower speeds (under 100 km/hr), I actually preferred the 250r just for its flickability.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't count on that being the case. Decades ago, people said the same thing about those tiny fast-spinning aluminum Honda car engines - that they wouldn't last as long as their tried-and-true Chevy big block V8. Look how that turned out.

I know of a '99 Yamaha R6 with just short of 100,000 km on it. I know of a cbr125 which had (I think) around 65,000 km on it when the owner sold it. I know of a Ninja 250 that has over 80,000 km on it (and it is someone who participated in this thread). I know of an EX500 with 110,000 km on it. My Fizzer 400 is "total mileage unknown" but it had at least 50,000 km plus 3 roadracing seasons for the previous owner when I had it apart to freshen it up and fix a known Yamaha OEM assembly flaw. And that brings up the real issue ...

Neglect, abuse, weak points in the design, and sometimes just plain bad luck are much greater factors for how long these engines will last, than what the displacement is.

Honda had issues with high oil consumption on some cbr1000 engines, but the 600s have been bulletproof except for those infernal timing chain tensioners.

Yamaha not bothering to screw in a pair of oil-restrictor jets all the way into the bottom of the threads has prematurely taken out many crankshafts and con-rods on FZR400 and FZR250 engines. (It generally lasted longer than the warranty ...) Unfortunately, the only way to inspect and correct this fault so that it never happens again is to take the engine *completely* apart.

I had my 2004 ZX10R engine apart to replace a pair of thrust washers that they made of the wrong material. (They fixed this for 2005) The engine was practically new-looking inside, at 70,000 km, except for those thrust washers. If one of those thrust washers lets go, the alternator rotor contacts the stator and throws magnetic metal shrapnel all over the inside of the engine.

None of these are displacement-related ... they're just things that for whatever reason, the manufacturer did not get sorted out prior to production - and in some cases, never bothered to fix ...


Put 124,000KM on my R6, never going above 9,000 rpm. Just passed 109,000 KM on my 1200, not going above 6,000 rpm...

Just because a bike *can* redline, doesn't mean that where it should spend most of its time. Focus group of one...
 
Last edited:
Put 124,000KM on my R6, never going above 9,000 rpm. Just passed 109,000 KM on my 1200, not going above 6,000 rpm...

Just because a bike *can* redline, doesn't mean that where it should spend most of its time. Focus group of one...
What? Why? Those bikes love being revved. Why even bother with an SS then?
 
What? Why? Those bikes love being revved. Why even bother with an SS then?



If you don't know, then there's no explaining.

Just because a race horse can run, doesn't mean you have to run it to death, until it's ready for the glue factory...

Have some respect for your equipment.
 
Last edited:
If you don't know, then there's no explaining.

Just because a race horse can run, doesn't mean you have to run it to death, until it's ready for the glue factory...

Have some respect for your equipment.

Lol wut?
 
If you don't know, then there's no explaining.

Just because a race horse can run, doesn't mean you have to run it to death, until it's ready for the glue factory...

Have some respect for your equipment.

Im going to help you now. Riding within redline is good, it's as designed to respect your equipment. Disabling your rev limiter and riding OVER your redline is bad, disrespecting your equipment. This is fact of engineering and not some made up opinion.
Yes, it's harder on the equipment and if there is an internal flaw or improper maintenance you will have an accelerated breakdown. Notice that I said accelerated? Those same flaws will come to a head eventually even if you decide to completely waste your money and use a high performance vehicle like it is a Model T Ford.
All my sportbikes have lived at redline quite often and all have had pristine maintenance. NONE have had a mechanical breakdown.
My old 86 VFR750 has around 180 000 kms now, 75 000 kms put on by me and that bike saw 240 km/h for lengthy durations at least twice per week. It didn't even need to replace the clutch until 80 000 kms.

Have you ever been running? A sprint, ever? Or do you just slowly walk everywhere because your body may just disintegrate or all your limbs spontaneously fall off at once?

Use your equipment as designed when safe (and preferably legal) to do so. Anything else is a complete waste of money unless your only goal is posing or telling others how great of a rider you are.
 
Depends on what you want to do and how long you want to keep your bike for. The advantage of bigger bore bikes is that you don't sustain high revs at hi way speeds over longer distances, so less wear and tear on the engine over time. A small engine is going to suffer more riding at high rpm for long periods of time than a big bore engine at lower rpm. That's why so many 5/600 ' s are beat to crap after 30,000km while 1000 CC's and above can go 100/200,000 km no problem...

and what's your explanation for my 250 that's constantly ridden at redline and is sitting at 85k+ km

Your whole "not meant to run at redline" argument is kinda bs. My 250 redlines at 13k rpm and makes peak power at 11.5-12, a ZX6r redlines around 17k rpm and makes peak power 13.5-14k rpms. So if you're you're just dicking around town at 9k rpm, its a legitimate question as to why you would want a SS??

and the race horse thing...seriously?? A bike isn't a ****ing animal, its a machine for crying out loud.
 
Last edited:
Put 124,000KM on my R6, never going above 9,000 rpm. Just passed 109,000 KM on my 1200, not going above 6,000 rpm...

Just because a bike *can* redline, doesn't mean that where it should spend most of its time. Focus group of one...



You've barely hit the power band in the R6... They stink below 8500RPM.... They come alive when you hit that power band and make them scream... You clearly haven't enjoyed riding it the way it was intended to be used lol.
 
You've barely hit the power band in the R6... They stink below 8500RPM.... They come alive when you hit that power band and make them scream... You clearly haven't enjoyed riding it the way it was intended to be used lol.

Actually, I really enjoyed riding it. All over the country. Had a blast and thought it was a fun bike. Favorite bike I've owned so far. Would buy another one in a hearbeat, if other attributes weren't more important now.

Anyway...Gonna just ride what I've got, the way I prefer and not worry about the semantics...

Over and out on this one. Have at it.
 
Actually, I really enjoyed riding it. All over the country. Had a blast and thought it was a fun bike. Favorite bike I've owned so far. Would buy another one in a hearbeat, if other attributes weren't more important now.

Anyway...Gonna just ride what I've got, the way I prefer and not worry about the semantics...

Over and out on this one. Have at it.
Don't wanna shift out of first gear, might go fast.
 
Sometimes it's good for an engine to get to the top end of the rpms. clears out that carbon lol
 
and what's your explanation for my 250 that's constantly ridden at redline and is sitting at 85k+ km

I sometimes wonder about this. The tachometer is "white" from 0 to, say, 12,000RPM where it's then "red." Living in the "white" zone is presumably okay and in the "red" is a no-no. After all, if 11,500 isn't safe for the engine, the engineers would have made the red zone start at 11,500, right?

But is 11,500 RPM -- i.e. living within millimeters of redline -- really okay for such an engine, especially for long periods of time? Intuitively, I think not: there are that many more fatigue cycles on the rod bolts, its beam, the piston pin and the pin bosses under the piston crown etc per unit time; the rings scrape their way along the cylinder walls that many more times per second; finger followers toggle that many more times per second, the valve springs also see that many more cycles etc etc.

But clearly, well designed and maintained engines designed for high-RPM operation seem to do okay. I think the quality of oil and rigorous maintenance play a role here.

Even still, while my FZ8 redlines at 11,500 I feel better cruising along at 6000 than I would at 11,000RPM for hours on end. :)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom