Stunt Driving on private property? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Stunt Driving on private property?

boyoboy

Well-known member
jeez. no more long wheelies w the dualsport - and I thought the front yard was safe from the fedaralies...

is spinning up the rear wheel and doing wheelies now illegal when im out dirtbiking on crown land? wtf.
fu try and catch me. just joking. yeh thats it. lol

Id find a pine tree to hide behind..
 
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nakkers

Well-known member
Site Supporter
The road to hell is paved with good intentions….



I suspect the incentive to run from a traffic stop is higher now.

I don’t believe it’s making public roads or private areas any safer.

IMO of course.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Wingboy

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Personal responsibility is dead.

IMO this law is targetting those large car meetups that happen at Timmies or in plazas. Most stunters on bikes already run without plates and the cops are powerless to stop them.
Correct. Closed course events (even in a farmer's field) won't be affected. Waivers are signed by everyone and all participants are insured.
It will be a different story for the kid on the retired mx racebike doing around rural land.
 

otwo_91

Well-known member
Personal responsibility is dead.

IMO this law is targetting those large car meetups that happen at Timmies or in plazas. Most stunters on bikes already run without plates and the cops are powerless to stop them.
The people passing these laws do not know that this is a problem. And even if they did, they wont do anything to address it.
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Correct. Closed course events (even in a farmer's field) won't be affected. Waivers are signed by everyone and all participants are insured.
It will be a different story for the kid on the retired mx racebike doing around rural land.
What is reasonable these days and who are the gods that decide?

Model airplanes instead of MX bikes but the same concept. A few guys go to the park at Jane / Eglinton to fly model airplanes instead of doing drugs or loitering at the malls. Ten or fifteen minutes after they start they a cop car shows up "Noise complaint, pack it up". This happens several times.

They decide to try another time, go and set out their stuff but don't even start engines, just sit and wait. Ten minutes later the cop shows up "Noise complaint".

I understand there are legal issues, someone abusing 911 etc vs. actual noise problems but it turns a fun outing into an expensive legal battle. The MX could be the same but with more serious legal consequences.
 

killvino

Well-known member
In my personal opinion: Just because you own a piece of property it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want on it.

If you own a large enough property you could set up a gun or bow and arrow range but doing the same thing in a city yard would be considered dangerous unless extreme measures were used to protect bystanders.

Doing a burnout in your 40 foot driveway with the only safeguard being caution tape or plastic pylons could easily get one a dangerous driving conviction which makes HTA-172 a cakewalk. Didn't some Cannonball Run competitors get busted a few years back for doing donuts in a private parking lot in Niagara Falls?

If it's a criminal charge, dangerous driving, the police could seize evidence, the cars, and I suppose hold them until trial.

The police use their instincts, good or bad, to determine how to handle the situation. Theoretically the basis of a charge would be "Would a reasonable person in the risk area expect the danger?"

A crowded costume party and two attendees dressed as Samurai warriors start to sword fight with real katanas....

If children are around would they understand the danger?

How far do you take it?

I was at a fall fair years ago and was watching the mini tractor pull, highly modified lawn tractors.

One tractor blew its motor and a piece flew dangerously close to spectators.

If someone was hurt there would likely be lawsuits as there were no specific waivers.

Everything is fun until someone gets hurt.

Agreed on this and even the severity of charges for HTA172. Only issue has always been cop being judge and juror on the side of the road (farm field, driveway, etc now).
With DUIs there is a continued threat to public safety. Tow, roadside suspension; no issues with that.
Someone wheelieing or sliding the rear? This person is suddenly an ongoing threat to public safety? Are we going to start doing that with other offenses? He is speeding so can't be trusted now to not speed or even worse red light/ stop sign runners.

Heck even texters don't get their phones or vehicles impounded on the spot. Only exception in my opinion are people who run from the police.
Give a ticket with the same charges but no roadside suspension or tow.

Now they've made it even worse by expanding the possible jurisdiction to private property.
 

bitzz

Well-known member
the way I see this is the Ford government is trying to make an end run around charging people with "dangerous driving" which is a criminal charge and enforceable anywhere. (This has bothered me since the inception of Ontario's "Stunt" and "racing" charges in the HTA. We already had laws that had worked in the past. Why do we need new laws? So it looks like the politicians are doing something?)
The problem with "dangerous" is the prosecutor MUST prove what you were doing was dangerous to the general public.
HTA charges are "absolute liability", meaning if you did it, you're guilty.
If you charge someone with "dangerous" for doing wheelies in a parking lot, a good lawyer is gonna argue that because no one was hurt, it wasn't dangerous... so NOW the prosecutor has to PROVE that doing wheelies is inherently DANGEROUS.
Whereas you charge the guy/girl with HTA 172, where wheelies are expressly disallowed, being an absolute liability charge, you do wheelies, you're guilty.
Charge someone with dangerous, you have a complicated three day court case, clogging up an already over taxed court system ... OR charge them with HTA172 and they plead guilty.
expedient? Yes
equitable? Not so much.
The court system is supposed to be about justice. Justice is not necessarily expedient, BUT it SUPPOSED to be equitable... you know...the blindfolded lady with the balanced scales....
Our court system is no longer about justice.
our court system should NEVER be about political "points", which is how I see this
 

bitzz

Well-known member
Who remembers "CARELESS" charges?
The cops used to hand out careless charges like Santa handed out candy canes.
A nice police officer told me Careless is the easiest charge to lay, and the hardest charge to prove.

It's been a while since I have heard of anyone getting charged with Careless care and control of a Motor Vehicle.
HMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Who remembers "CARELESS" charges?
The cops used to hand out careless charges like Santa handed out candy canes.
A nice police officer told me Careless is the easiest charge to lay, and the hardest charge to prove.

It's been a while since I have heard of anyone getting charged with Careless care and control of a Motor Vehicle.
HMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
They still hand them out in crashes. Most rear-enders either get a careless or following too closely depending on the attitudes of those involved. Much easier to prove if you hit somebody. In situations where there is no crash, I agree, not so often.
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
Who remembers "CARELESS" charges?
The cops used to hand out careless charges like Santa handed out candy canes.
A nice police officer told me Careless is the easiest charge to lay, and the hardest charge to prove.

It's been a while since I have heard of anyone getting charged with Careless care and control of a Motor Vehicle.
HMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Potentially anytime there was a risk to life or public property they will throw out a careless charge.
 

Wingboy

Well-known member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Organized events are fine.
 

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blackcamaro

Well-known member
im freaked at this and the 150cc insurance delete
Honestly I'm not too stressed about the whole thing. I really doubt the cops will be hiding in the single track trying to jam up people riding legal trails. Maybe on the double track but I'm pretty much cruising the whole time I'm on the double track anyways, don't want to catch a ATV or side by side to the face.

Do you see any enforcement where you ride now? I've been riding Scorra trails all summer 2-4 times a week and I haven't seen the police once.

The insurance thing is a pain no doubt about it.
 

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