Streetcar Track Lowside

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On my way to Billy Bishop for an evening Porter flight to Ottawa on Thursday. F650GS (twin) riding Bathurst south around 40km/h in the left lane between the tracks between King and Front. Shoulder checked, signaled and started to change lanes to avoid left turning cars 200 metres ahead before the bridge, and as soon as the front wheel hit the wet streetcar track... whoosh! it just locked in started to slide along the rail.

Speed was pretty constant (no brakes or throttle that I can recall) and even crossed at an angle (maybe 30 degrees?). I've crossed tracks in the dry a hundred times and I guess I had gained a false sense of security. New rider, much to learn: sometimes the hard way.

The good news: the bike slid in front of me and I was wearing good gear. Nylon rain pants didn't even wear through. Very small rash on elbow where pad slipped. Slight bruise on hip. Bike slid on rear foot peg and tip of right handle bar. Bent the peg hanger out a few inches and ground the end of the handlebar a bit, but didn't touch the plastics or the engine.

Thanks to everyone who stopped and especially to the guy on the sport touring bike who came over to help me lift mine and regain my composure. Sorry, I was a bit pumped with adrenaline and can't remember too many details, but I really appreciate it!

I am gonna be extra super paranoid riding downtown in the rain from now on. Couldn't believe just how quickly it happened and how little I could do to react!

Any advice on how you deal with running (across) the rails?
 
Glad you're ok. I have almost gone down twice crossing streetcar tracks. Yes there are strategies (no throttle, cross at angle), but I'm never fully confident when crossing tracks. Some riders have never had a problem, but those of us who have know to treat them with a high degree of caution.

ikelso said:
On my way to Billy Bishop for an evening Porter flight to Ottawa on Thursday. F650GS (twin) riding Bathurst south around 40km/h in the left lane between the tracks between King and Front. Shoulder checked, signaled and started to change lanes to avoid left turning cars 200 metres ahead before the bridge, and as soon as the front wheel hit the wet streetcar track... whoosh! it just locked in started to slide along the rail.

Speed was pretty constant (no brakes or throttle that I can recall) and even crossed at an angle (maybe 30 degrees?). I've crossed tracks in the dry a hundred times and I guess I had gained a false sense of security. New rider, much to learn: sometimes the hard way.

The good news: the bike slid in front of me and I was wearing good gear. Nylon rain pants didn't even wear through. Very small rash on elbow where pad slipped. Slight bruise on hip. Bike slid on rear foot peg and tip of right handle bar. Bent the peg hanger out a few inches and ground the end of the handlebar a bit, but didn't touch the plastics or the engine.

Thanks to everyone who stopped and especially to the guy on the sport touring bike who came over to help me lift mine and regain my composure. Sorry, I was a bit pumped with adrenaline and can't remember too many details, but I really appreciate it!

I am gonna be extra super paranoid riding downtown in the rain from now on. Couldn't believe just how quickly it happened and how little I could do to react!

Any advice on how you deal with running (across) the rails?
Click to expand...
 
Didn't some cop motorcycles crash on those same streetcar tracks some years ago? For some reason I think that area has extra mean streetcar tracks.
 
Glad you're ok. I've never really ridden the tracks when wet but I imagine the key is to cross at an angle as close to perpendicular as possible while maintaining constant speed (ie, no acceleration/deceleration) or perhaps coast. Also, to get your turning momentum underway before actually touching the tracks so that there's minimal vector change while riding on slippery metal.
 
What's the idea behind no acceleration? I do accelerate to lighten the front and never had a problem.
 
I had read several theories about technique before ever riding close to the tracks. Some say more throttle, some constant throttle, and others to pull in the clutch. Definitely crossing at a sharp angle is a best practice no one could argue with, but alas it is one of those maneuvers that is difficult to experiment on without some risk!

Methinks I will be taking it real easy around streetcar tracks from now on, esp. in the wet. I live & work downtown though, so no way to avoid them on a daily basis.
 
I had a near diaper experience with my very first bike 5 minutes after I picked it up from the dealer. Wet tracks but I made it. Hated tracks ever since.
 
wish u a speedy recovery... had same
incident 2 months ago... never had a problem with tracks till that day.. it can happen to anybody.. ride real slow around them i guess
 
It was a clear sunny morning and I was making a left turn onto Beverley from Queen and "did all the right things"... cross at an angle, light throttle and once the wheel hit the track the bike slid about 6 inches, wobbled then the tire caught asphalt and proceeded forward. Not before scaring the *&^% out of me. I too cross the tracks with more caution ever since.
 
Not only is wet (from water) track slippery enough -- but the TTC "greases" the track at strategic locations (including where street cars turn) to limit squeeling:

The TTC uses environmentally friendly grease that is automatically dispensed at strategic points along the tracks—both subway and streetcar. As a vehicle approaches a curve, it triggers an automatic dispenser that applies a sufficient amount of lubrication to the rails to lessen or eliminate, entirely, this metal on metal friction. Reservoirs embedded in the road and along tracks in tunnels, do need to be topped up and, occasionally, do run dry. Okay, but why, you might ask, does one train run through a curve in relative silence, while the next causes even the most hardened Anvil fan to reach for their ears? Simply put, each train and streetcar is different. Variables like speed and passenger load means the application of grease can never be precise. Dispensers are in fixed locations, and while the TTC looks for optimal placement, these variables will always be a factor in eliminating rail squeal.

http://torontoist.com/2009/09/rocket_talk_how_come_streetcars_and_subway_cars_squeak/

Perhaps this intersection in question has these dispensers, and they are particularly greasy?

Basis for a class-action on the part of motorcyclists and bicyclists that have been injured and/or damaged their bikes?
 
I haven't had a problem with them, but am wary of them eitherway. I know how slippery metal can be when wet...

downhill + bicycle + manhole cover + rain = not fun.
 
Yukoner said:
Not only is wet (from water) track slippery enough -- but the TTC "greases" the track at strategic locations (including where street cars turn) to limit squeeling:

The TTC uses environmentally friendly grease that is automatically dispensed at strategic points along the tracks—both subway and streetcar. As a vehicle approaches a curve, it triggers an automatic dispenser that applies a sufficient amount of lubrication to the rails to lessen or eliminate, entirely, this metal on metal friction. Reservoirs embedded in the road and along tracks in tunnels, do need to be topped up and, occasionally, do run dry. Okay, but why, you might ask, does one train run through a curve in relative silence, while the next causes even the most hardened Anvil fan to reach for their ears? Simply put, each train and streetcar is different. Variables like speed and passenger load means the application of grease can never be precise. Dispensers are in fixed locations, and while the TTC looks for optimal placement, these variables will always be a factor in eliminating rail squeal.

http://torontoist.com/2009/09/rocket_talk_how_come_streetcars_and_subway_cars_squeak/

Perhaps this intersection in question has these dispensers, and they are particularly greasy?

Basis for a class-action on the part of motorcyclists and bicyclists that have been injured and/or damaged their bikes?
Click to expand...

I never would have thought of that. I've heard the term "Greasing the wheels" but never related it to this. I shall avoid tracks even more, especially on corners.
 
I believe (and i could be completely off base) the grease is sprayed on the side of the rail and not the top.

Can anyone provide more info on this? We have to have a TTC employee in this group.
 
I knew they used sand for braking but greasing that's news to me...

Sent from phone
 
Here is a rather technical analysis of how (not) to cross the tracks from James R Davis, an expert in motorcycle safety & dynamics:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=270&Set=

Essentially he advises that you definitely want to get the greatest angle of attack BUT to make sure both of your wheels are pointed in the same direction as you actually cross. The catch is that it will be impossible to get even a minimum 45 degree angle if you are riding between the tracks.
 
Yeah I can't even imagine the liability issues putting grease on the topside of the track. I am sure their lawyers would never let them so something like this just to cut back on noise.

But I wonder if the grease ends up on top of the rail anyways, even if just injected from the side???


Gixxer6 said:
I believe (and i could be completely off base) the grease is sprayed on the side of the rail and not the top.

Can anyone provide more info on this? We have to have a TTC employee in this group.
Click to expand...
 
When crossing tracks during a turn i put my legs together tight to the tank, then do a bunny hop over the tracks with the entire bike in the air.. bmx style.. :tongue10:
 
Johnny5 said:
When crossing tracks during a turn i put my legs together tight to the tank, then do a bunny hop over the tracks with the entire bike in the air.. bmx style.. :tongue10:
Click to expand...

This. You sir, win an internet. :D
 
Bunny%20motorcycle.jpg


Johnny5 said:
When crossing tracks during a turn i put my legs together tight to the tank, then do a bunny hop over the tracks with the entire bike in the air.. bmx style.. :tongue10:
Click to expand...
 
sheesh. he says its even impossible to attain 45 degrees from a full lane away if you are going more than 10 mph. its the bike's angle and not the tire angle. i have been turning over and back tracks for some time with no problems at all. now i am starting to get a little freaked out. need to reassess how I ride over rails. glad you are ok ikelso.

ikelso said:
Here is a rather technical analysis of how (not) to cross the tracks from James R Davis, an expert in motorcycle safety & dynamics:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=270&Set=

Essentially he advises that you definitely want to get the greatest angle of attack BUT to make sure both of your wheels are pointed in the same direction as you actually cross. The catch is that it will be impossible to get even a minimum 45 degree angle if you are riding between the tracks.
Click to expand...
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