Speaking of China...

74 hp, 13.1 comp ratio
sounds like a modern 400 supersport
2022... looks possible?!

interesting. I like. $3799 grom priced please. I think the alarm clock's going off..
 
... but this is a 4 cylinder, REAL over square screamer motor... unless they did something really stupid it should be a repetitively smooth motor.

That motor in their 321RR platform is a squid's wet dream
A Ninja 400 has about 40 HP, this has 74. Power to weight ratio that we haven't seen since the two stroke days.
 
bitzz said:
... but this is a 4 cylinder, REAL over square screamer motor... unless they did something really stupid it should be a repetitively smooth motor.

That motor in their 321RR platform is a squid's wet dream
A Ninja 400 has about 40 HP, this has 74. Power to weight ratio that we haven't seen since the two stroke days.
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Not arguing. Of all the things to criticize a Chinese-built motorcycle, getting Reynaud's from the vibrations would not have been my first nit-pick.

Worrying about getting lead poisoning from the paint they use on the bike would probably rank higher than getting Reynaud's...
 
Quality and longevity, those are the key questions.

If you're of a certain delicate age you might remember in the early to mid sixties mocking Japan's habit of copying western products with dubiously designed, low quality, low cost products. That all changed in the late sixties and seventies when Japanese products began to be associated with high quality, durability and longevity.

Political issues aside, I still regard most Chinese products as low cost and low quality. It's up to the Chinese to decide when they want to evolve to a different position in the marketplace. China can assemble iPhones, so the capability is probably there, but is there the will?

Would you purchase a Chinese bike? Given the politics involved and the quality of other Chinese products I wouldn't.
 
ReSTored said:
Political issues aside, I still regard most Chinese products as low cost and low quality. It's up to the Chinese to decide when they want to evolve to a different position in the marketplace. China can assemble iPhones, so the capability is probably there, be is there the will?
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Even quality control in iPhone factories (Foxconn in China) is still a long-standing battle. The manufacturing culture in that country is to pump things out cheap and fast, not to be concerned about things like quality, longevity and durability.

There have been numerous strikes at the Foxconn factory where workers have put down their tools and refused to work because of the demands made by Quality Control officers, for products deemed to be saleable at a Western standard. A concept very alien to the way things are made and consumed in China.


I don't think QC is a political decision. I think it's very much a cultural one.
 
Lightcycle said:
Not arguing. Of all the things to criticize a Chinese-built motorcycle, getting Reynaud's from the vibrations would not have been my first nit-pick.

Worrying about getting lead poisoning from the paint they use on the bike would probably rank higher than getting Reynaud's...
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The white finger was meant as a humorous exaggeration. To be truthful the problem with Chinese stuff I have owned has not been assembly, but design and component quality related. Low-grade steel, improperly thought-out design, and a serious lack of product support. If you look at the Japanese bikes coming out of there they seem okay, albeit with a few issues, but they are coming along.

The buzz on inline-4 engines has always turned me off. No matter how well they're engineered the high-frequency buzz is always there past 100km/h. Never rode one that didn't buzz. I'll leave it to others to decide whether they think the Chinese will magically eliminate it. Perhaps we need to place bets to make it interesting. ;)
 
Roadghost said:
To be truthful the problem with Chinese stuff I have owned has not been assembly, but design and component quality related. Low-grade steel, improperly thought-out design, and a serious lack of product support.
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Unusual. Since most things are not designed in China, but merely ripped off from existing western or Japanese designs.

China's manufacturing is known for two things: poor quality control and intellectual property theft.

Funny story: Warm'n Safe heated gear actually had some heat trollers manufactured in China. But they made sure to omit one key part in the design, the part that would actually make the troller work. They retro-fitted that part in the US, once the incomplete troller got shipped from China.

Sure enough, China copied the design and sold the manufactured product without the key part. None of them worked out of the factory!
 
Lightcycle said:
Unusual. Since most things are not designed in China, but merely ripped off from existing western or Japanese designs.

China's manufacturing is known for two things: poor quality control and intellectual property theft.

Funny story: Warm'n Safe heated gear actually had some heat trollers manufactured in China. But they made sure to omit one key part in the design, the part that would actually make the troller work. They retro-fitted that part in the US, once the incomplete troller got shipped from China.

Sure enough, China copied the design and sold the manufactured product without the key part. None of them worked out of the factory!
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I'll give you and example. My Briggs and Stratton snowblower works quite well, but every year I have to clean out the carb because it lacks a filter and debris gets into the carb. That could be a U.S. design thing, or it could be an incorrectly executed design by the Chinese. My old Tecumseh had a filter. As for component quality it's simply a case of soft metal used for screws, and premature rusting caused by highly oxidized steel.

It's true about copycat stuff though. The Chinese do not innovate, and they have absolutely no respect for copyright and trademark law. They see a good idea from anywhere and they steal it without apology.
 
Roadghost said:
Why yes, and look forward to this.

en.wikipedia.org

Hand arm vibrations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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I realize this was in jest, but it's pretty rich coming from a Harley rider. ;)

Roadghost said:
I'll give you and example. My Briggs and Stratton snowblower works quite well, but every year I have to clean out the carb because it lacks a filter and debris gets into the carb. That could be a U.S. design thing, or it could be an incorrectly executed design by the Chinese
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It's a "we can build each snowblower for 75¢ cheaper if we don't install a fuel filter" thing more than anything. So if a manufacturer makes, say, 5 million snowblowers in a year that's $3.75 Million more in "shareholder value". And the odds are against this missing fuel filter causing issues for most people inside the warranty period. After that, they don't give a ****.

If you look at a modern piece of equipment like this (snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc) vs one built even 10 (much less 20 or 30) years ago, it's astounding how much most manufacturers are cheaping out now. It's all about being able to put **** on the sales floor for the lowest possible price now, not building something that'll still be in someones garage and operating 30 years later.
 
PrivatePilot said:
If you look at a modern piece of equipment like this (snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc) vs one built even 10 (much less 20 or 30) years ago, it's astounding how much most manufacturers are cheaping out now. It's all about being able to put **** on the sales floor for the lowest possible price now, not building something that'll still be in someone's garage and operating 30 years later.
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My Craftsman snowblower is 30+ years old, very little plastic on it, it still runs great with an occasional carb cleaning and it looks like new. I'm sure I'll have it another 15+ years, at which time I'll probably be too old to use it. Maybe I'll revise my will and leave it to my grandson.

I don't think people value things that last the way they used to, not that they really have a choice in terms of what's for sale. Will people pay more for general consumer products that are more durable and will last for years. I've been a Consumers Reports subscriber for decades and always check reliability record on major purchases, but I feel I'm a bit of an exception that way as many people seem to not care about this at all.
 
PrivatePilot said:
I realize this was in jest, but it's pretty rich coming from a Harley rider. ;)
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Harley's only vibrate through the pegs. That's why we all walk funny.

PrivatePilot said:
It's a "we can build each snowblower for 75¢ cheaper if we don't install a fuel filter" thing more than anything. So if a manufacturer makes, say, 5 million snowblowers in a year that's $3.75 Million more in "shareholder value". And the odds are against this missing fuel filter causing issues for most people inside the warranty period. After that, they don't give a ****.

If you look at a modern piece of equipment like this (snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc) vs one built even 10 (much less 20 or 30) years ago, it's astounding how much most manufacturers are cheaping out now. It's all about being able to put **** on the sales floor for the lowest possible price now, not building something that'll still be in someones garage and operating 30 years later.
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My MTD lasted for 20 years. Would have lasted longer but I threw a rod pushing through 4 ft high wet snow plough bank at the end of the driveway. Could have fixed it but the Briggs was 10hp for $600 on Amazon with warranty. No amount of RustChek will stop this thing from rusting. I expect it will last for about 10 years.
 
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