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single vs twin vs four

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
Not if your in the completely wrong gear and then want to complain about the low end. To experience no low end try a 125 mx bike.

Bikes I've owned that I consider to 'pull hard' Tuono, ZX6R/GSXR600, KTM 450 supermoto, KTM 625SMC and YZ450. My Harleys didn't pull so hard and neither did my DRZ400 but that was a fun bike too.
Hi, i ride a Grom lol. I've also owned an FZ09.

Having experienced about 10hp-120hp and no torque to a torque monster i'd say i've experienced both ends of the spectrum quite well.
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
@GreyGhost let's pick a 600 ss. Cruising around in 2nd or 3rd at 6-7000 rpm (in my opinion we're in the low end here considering the bikes rev out to 15,000 plus rpm) and you crack the throttle the bike will still have pretty strong acceleration yet the real power comes on well over 10,000rpm. If your poking around in 6th gear at 3500-4000 rpm then yeah acceleration isn't going to be great.
Let's pick an R6, generally agreed upon as the worst street bike super sport (but the best track one).

It IS a complete dog until 9k (based on a few days on a buddies 2012 r6), then it dumps all the power on you at once. I realize there are some better tuned (more street friendly) SS's to choose from ZX6R and GSXR come to mind and are more linear. Point is, even on those you're still typically winding them up into the rpms before you really 'pull hard'.

Would it surprise you to know i really never went above 6k rpm on my FZ09 unless i was trying to show off? The way the motor was tuned i never had to and that motor spins up FAST.

Imo saying SS's are pretty meh for the street down low is justified. To your point, quite a bit has to do with unfriendly street gearing as well.
 

Chris-CJ

Active member
Let's pick an R6, generally agreed upon as the worst street bike super sport (but the best track one).

It IS a complete dog until 9k (based on a few days on a buddies 2012 r6), then it dumps all the power on you at once. I realize there are some better tuned (more street friendly) SS's to choose from ZX6R and GSXR come to mind and are more linear. Point is, even on those you're still typically winding them up into the rpms before you really 'pull hard'.

Would it surprise you to know i really never went above 6k rpm on my FZ09 unless i was trying to show off? The way the motor was tuned i never had to and that motor spins up FAST.

Imo saying SS's are pretty meh for the street down low is justified. To your point, quite a bit has to do with unfriendly street gearing as well.
The "R" and "RR" of the bee-ems have a difference of only 1Nm between them, though the RPM that the torque peaks at is quite different for both.
I wonder if that would make a significant difference in the ride?
The last i-4 that I owned was a ZR7S with a 810cc big bore kit and a different-from-stock sprocket ratio, plus an ignition advance kit. There was a brief RPM band that equated to 110 kph at which the bike would become buzzy. From conversation, I hear that all i-4's have this, is it a fact?
My next ride was a V twin that had none, but then it may not have been spinning as fast.
The boxer is smooth with just enough of "vibe" to let you know that it is not electric.
Wish I had the opportunity to try the i-6's from Honda (CBX) or Benelli... both defunct now or BMW's K1600 (quoted price $26,550 or $34,775...I can dream!)

Heading down the highway
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
The "R" and "RR" of the bee-ems have a difference of only 1Nm between them, though the RPM that the torque peaks at is quite different for both.
I wonder if that would make a significant difference in the ride?
The last i-4 that I owned was a ZR7S with a 810cc big bore kit and a different-from-stock sprocket ratio, plus an ignition advance kit. There was a brief RPM band that equated to 110 kph at which the bike would become buzzy. From conversation, I hear that all i-4's have this, is it a fact?
My next ride was a V twin that had none, but then it may not have been spinning as fast.
The boxer is smooth with just enough of "vibe" to let you know that it is not electric.
Wish I had the opportunity to try the i-6's from Honda (CBX) or Benelli... both defunct now or BMW's K1600 (quoted price $26,550 or $34,775...I can dream!)

Heading down the highway
Having ridden both i can say it does. S1KR makes more grunt down low due to the engine tune.

Buzzy motor? Can't see it, the BMW i-4s specifically have some annoying vibration through the bars but if we're talking about the sound coming off the engine, no i haven't experienced that. Then again i typically have plugs/tunes on the go so :geek:
 

Trials

Well-known member
On my longitudinal I-4 beemer the left mirror stops vibrating at about 145 kph in 5th.
The bars are rubber mounted, they don't vibrate much.
 

Baggsy

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Try a Busa, Connie or FJR if you want an I4 that will pull a trailer while pulling wheelies.
Those are somewhat different bikes. I've owned both an 1100 cc Magna V4 and a 1000cc Connie though. If you want to see the difference put them both in second gear at idle and roll on throttle.

With a V4 you get the sensation of G-force all the way up the speedometer, so there's not as much need to get into the no-no speed zone.
 

blackcamaro

Well-known member
Let's pick an R6, generally agreed upon as the worst street bike super sport (but the best track one).

It IS a complete dog until 9k (based on a few days on a buddies 2012 r6), then it dumps all the power on you at once. I realize there are some better tuned (more street friendly) SS's to choose from ZX6R and GSXR come to mind and are more linear. Point is, even on those you're still typically winding them up into the rpms before you really 'pull hard'.
Set a rev limited on that R6 at 9000 rpm and you would still be riding a 60hp bike with 35ish ft/lbs torque. A lot of people ride bikes with those numbers or less and feel they are pretty quick. On a 400lb bike it’s also enough to put accelerate most vehicles out there.

So not an absolute rocket in that RPM range but I have a tough time considering that a dog. It’s really not hard to ride one close to the rpm’s needed to get to the real power anyways.

It does boil down to personal preference and like I originally stated I don’t have a preference. I appreciate the different characteristics different engines and bikes have to offer.
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
Set a rev limited on that R6 at 9000 rpm and you would still be riding a 60hp bike with 35ish ft/lbs torque. A lot of people ride bikes with those numbers or less and feel they are pretty quick. On a 400lb bike it’s also enough to put accelerate most vehicles out there.

So not an absolute rocket in that RPM range but I have a tough time considering that a dog. It’s really not hard to ride one close to the rpm’s needed to get to the real power anyways.

It does boil down to personal preference and like I originally stated I don’t have a preference. I appreciate the different characteristics different engines and bikes have to offer.
I can only base my response off your comments. /shrug
 

bitzz

Well-known member
You guys should know that the engine configuration, V Twin, V4, I4, parallel twin etc etc , has almost ZERO to do with output characteristics of an engine, with a few exceptions; notably Ducati "L" twins.
I4s come in 180 degree, cross plane and "big bang".
Parallel twins are 360 degree, 180 degree or "big bang".
V twins are all over the place, potato potato motors are 315-375, Taglioni "L" twins are 634 (and are magic).
... and those are just firing orders. Cams, compression and ignition timing have more bearing on output characteristics than engine shape.
You can tune an I4 for torque and you can tune a V twin for HP. The rapidly burning gases in the cylinder don't know or care if there are more cylinders or where they are(there are mechanical differences between the different layouts of engines, like the way bearings and rings wear but it doesn't effect output).
Engine shape is usually more to do with packaging. Twins are narrower, V twins that share a crank pin are the narrowest. I4s and parallel twins are the shortest front to back
Some of the most successful race engines were square 4s... best of all worlds, but too expensive to mass produce... so the next cheaper way to make HP is I4. So we get I4s.
 

Chris-CJ

Active member
square fours back in time, the Ariel square four and it was let down by it's shaft drive that broke due either it's design or materials used at the time

Heading down the highway
 

Ghostrider619

Well-known member
I used to own Ninja 1000 ( Inline 4 ) and that thing used to pull hard starting at 3K RPM because they are tuned for street. I got an R6 to try out something different this season and it felt like it had no power down low because R6 actually gives out 60-70% power under 8-9K rpm even with throttle wide open - Heard it’s some rider safety feature. I had to get my Ecu flashed and now it’s much nicer.. it gained a bit of torque in mid range. Will go with -1 +2 sprocket conversion kit next season and it will feel sweet accelerating off the line :)
 

Evoex

The God
Site Supporter
I used to own Ninja 1000 ( Inline 4 ) and that thing used to pull hard starting at 3K RPM because they are tuned for street. I got an R6 to try out something different this season and it felt like it had no power down low because R6 actually gives out 60-70% power under 8-9K rpm even with throttle wide open. I had to get my Ecu flashed and now it’s much nicer.. it gained a bit of torque in mid range. Will go with -1 +2 sprocket conversion kit next season and it will feel sweet accelerating off the line :)
Bingo.
 

Trials

Well-known member
Even an old pre unit construction twin has some appeal to me.
Only one I ever had the fortune to own was a BSA BB34 in MX trim.

If I owned an old bike now, it would be a racer of some form.
but not a twin or a twingle, unless it was a boxer. :LOL:
 

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