Possible to Insure yourself??

[Apollo95]

Im curious. the way things stand in auto/motorcycle insurance,
how can someone insure themselves??

bypass insurance hikes and insurance companies. is it possible?

the way things are now, more ppl are being restricted to drive/ride based on insurance rates than licensing.

Ontario Traffic law seems to be enforced more by Insurance than Demerit points. ppl are more afraid of unreasonable insurance hikes than getting demerit points on their license. doesn't make sense.

if it's just liability, such as one can only ask for liability coverage with car/motorcycle. so $200 000?? is that what it takes to ensure one self??

 

[Brian P]

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Large corporations might be able to self-insure, but individuals can't.

 

[DJM]

I know some states allow it ($20K to 50K approx.) but I don't recall individuals in Ontario having that ability. Why would you want to? You would have to put down 1 million dollars to cover just personal liability and the insurance companies would be making money off that principle, not you.

 

[Apollo95]

i know, it doesn't seem "logical" to want to,

but just thinking,
i have 2 tickets on record (1 is a major) and 2 in court system right now. (all with the car, not bike).
3/4 are BS tickets, but still will effect insurance.

im fearing being dropped by my insurance company. which really seems unfair.
so will i be facing "high risk" insurance which will cost me $5000+ for my SS???

was thinking why should we/I be governed by this?
is it possible to just insure myself instead of having to deal with this. i mean really doesn't seem right to me.

if demerit points aren't' stopping me from driving/riding my bike, or purchasing any car (theoretically if you have the means $). then why should this be governed/determined by insurance??

and if convicted of the other 2, ill have 4 tickets on record. 3 minor, 1 major.

i've never made a claim.
before this year had a clean record for 12 years.

so just had a really bad year, and sick of worrying about insurance. it's BS!

 

[Apollo95]

i found this:

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/archives/showthread.php?130748-Self-insurance


but still, just wish it was possible/reasonable.

 

[Lord-Humongous]

A reciprocal or co-op for motorcycles might work. Though if motorcyclists organized this way, we might find out that it actually costs what we were being charged before. Where's that actuary?

 

[spaceboy]

Though if motorcyclists organized this way, we might find out that it actually costs what we were being charged before

Bingo. While bike insurance is expensive, the profit margins are not what people think they are. I recall viffer posted that State Farm actually loses some money on motorcycle policies to bring in home/auto business.

 

[meme]

I know some states allow it ($20K to 50K approx.) but I don't recall individuals in Ontario having that ability. Why would you want to? You would have to put down 1 million dollars to cover just personal liability and the insurance companies would be making money off that principle, not you.

200,000 is minimum. Not a million.

 

[nobbie48]

Even a mediocre investment wannabe can make you $5k to $10K average on the $200K in a year. Why risk it and everything else you own on the gamble.

Also, when you buy an insurance policy you get the use of their million dollar lawyers for free. Like it or not, many lawsuits are won by the deepest pockets and if all you have in your pocket is $200K they will bury you.

 

[drumstyx]

Bingo. While bike insurance is expensive, the profit margins are not what people think they are. I recall viffer posted that State Farm actually loses some money on motorcycle policies to bring in home/auto business.

I thought it was fairly well known that it's fraud that makes the premiums high, not necessarily profit. It's just that there's no sense of responsibility. No one wants to *really* take on the task of challenging the fraudsters, and fraudsters keep targeting Ontario because of the rich benefits.

 

[Apollo95]

Even a mediocre investment wannabe can make you $5k to $10K average on the $200K in a year. Why risk it and everything else you own on the gamble.

Also, when you buy an insurance policy you get the use of their million dollar lawyers for free. Like it or not, many lawsuits are won by the deepest pockets and if all you have in your pocket is $200K they will bury you.

I'm curious about what you said: "Also, when you buy an insurance policy you get the use of their million dollar lawyers for free."

does this apply to fighting tickets under HTA??

because i absolutely agree. any sort of legal issue, deepest pockets win.
but i really want the best representation in HTA matters and tickets.

 

[Apollo95]

I thought it was fairly well known that it's fraud that makes the premiums high, not necessarily profit. It's just that there's no sense of responsibility. No one wants to *really* take on the task of challenging the fraudsters, and fraudsters keep targeting Ontario because of the rich benefits.

i've heard this too. but one would figure they (insurance companies or politicians representing us) would seal up these loop holes, thus lowering insurance rates.
ALSO, how it is that other provinces have lower insurance?? is it just the scammers in Ontario that are costing us the price of a New SS in insurance every 2 years?? really something doesn't add up.

Even a mediocre investment wannabe can make you $5k to $10K average on the $200K in a year. Why risk it and everything else you own on the gamble.

Also, when you buy an insurance policy you get the use of their million dollar lawyers for free. Like it or not, many lawsuits are won by the deepest pockets and if all you have in your pocket is $200K they will bury you.

and yes, certainly investing the moneys can cover my insurance. although i still get ****** off about the BS tickets police give out, thus raising insurance and worrying about being dropped when someone has a bad year where they get 3+ tickets.

I'm more concerned with fixing the insurance problem for EVERYONE. cuz certainly as it stands, is messed up and not making sense.

 

[spaceboy]

I thought it was fairly well known that it's fraud that makes the premiums high, not necessarily profit. It's just that there's no sense of responsibility. No one wants to *really* take on the task of challenging the fraudsters, and fraudsters keep targeting Ontario because of the rich benefits.

i've heard this too. but one would figure they (insurance companies or politicians representing us) would seal up these loop holes, thus lowering insurance rates.
ALSO, how it is that other provinces have lower insurance?? is it just the scammers in Ontario that are costing us the price of a New SS in insurance every 2 years?? really something doesn't add up.

In 2010 it was estimated to be about 9-18% of annual claims costs. They are not loopholes, and I'm not sure insurance companies really have the power to go after them. It's a legal matter so the government should really be leading such an initiative.
You're comparing different levels of coverage in different provinces.

I'm curious about what you said: "Also, when you buy an insurance policy you get the use of their million dollar lawyers for free."

does this apply to fighting tickets under HTA??

No.

 

[Apollo95]

In 2010 it was estimated to be about 9-18% of annual claims costs. They are not loopholes, and I'm not sure insurance companies really have the power to go after them. It's a legal matter so the government should really be leading such an initiative.
You're comparing different levels of coverage in different provinces.



No.

Thank you for info. let's hope that something gets done to resolve these issues. seems all then we can do is just hope and keep paying "i.e. buying a new SS every two-3 years" cuz that's pretty much what the cost of insurance is.

 

[murf]

Thank you for info. let's hope that something gets done to resolve these issues. seems all then we can do is just hope and keep paying "i.e. buying a new SS every two-3 years" cuz that's pretty much what the cost of insurance is.

Its not too bad for everyone, $900 full coverage RSV4 factory is what I got.

 

[murf]

ALSO, how it is that other provinces have lower insurance?? is it just the scammers in Ontario that are costing us the price of a New SS in insurance every 2 years?? really something doesn't add up.
.

It does add up. Quebec has cheaper insurance. Insurance there does not cover pain and suffering because you cant sue for it. If you die in an accident because of soneone elses mistake they pay your family based on your salary and age, up to a max of $170000 or so. Here you can sue for millions.

 

[Apollo95]

Its not too bad for everyone, $900 full coverage RSV4 factory is what I got.

Interesting. so what happens when/if someone has a residence (i.e. cottage or rental property) in Quebec,
and is visiting Ontario?
under those circumstances, I'm guessing just insurance coverage under Quebec is enough. yes?

 

[murf]

Interesting. so what happens when/if someone has a residence (i.e. cottage or rental property) in Quebec,
and is visiting Ontario?
under those circumstances, I'm guessing just insurance coverage under Quebec is enough. yes?

For which scenario?

 

[Apollo95]

doesn't matter i guess. unless someone already has a residence in another province or far away farm somewhere, doesn't make sense to investigate the scenarios.

best solution might be for ontario to switch to BCs system, which is why some province's have lower insurance.

but state farm is right now i think the best for majority of riders, and once Desjardins takes over i doubt things will change for the better.
need to figure out some options and solutions.

 

[hedo2002]

With the above scenario, (having a cottage or second residence in say Que, but "visiting" Ont and therefore getting insurance in Que but driving in Ontario, (presumably on a full time basis), would likely qualify you for the "insurance fraud discount" where they won't pay ANY claim, and good luck getting insurance again here in Ontario.

Not to mention your DL would have to reflect the Que address and your plates would have to be Que based.