Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation | GTAMotorcycle.com

Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation

Rob MacLennan

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silverbullet132

Well-known member
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

Budget chief Mike Del Grande seems to think a bike takes up an entire parking spot. This only happens when the rider is inconsiderate, most of the time riders park in such a way that 3-4 bikes can share the same spot.
 

kiterider

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Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

Another harebrained, illogical scheme by the city.
I was gonna rant on a little more but, Bah....what's the point??
 

kiterider

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Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

Thanks for the tip Eng J. Just caught the last 3 mins
 

Rob MacLennan

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Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

It was only maybe 5 minutes long, in all. I think that the best point made was by Downs who pointed out the amount of money wasted when motorcyclists have to prove that they actually paid for their stolen or lost tickets, and the parking tickets are dropped.
 

EatSleepRIDE

Active member
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto.

Feel free to reuse this open letter and send it to your Toronto city councillors.

Dear Mr Layton,


I understand after reading this article (http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/29/motorcycle-free-parking-faces-to-ban) that Toronto council intends to vote on the issue of rescinding free motorcycle parking in the city. As my representative on council, I wanted you to understand that this would not be in the best interests of the city.


Firstly, the arguments being advanced by Del Grande and Wong-Tam are, to say the least, biased: While motorcyclists do indeed burn gas, they burn significantly less of it, especially in urban centres. That they also can't name a dollar figure being lost is somewhat odd. How would they know the law was a success, for example?


Secondly, we take up significantly less road, both whilst driving and parked. We also cause far less damage to the surface due to lighter vehicles. Of course, if this is about fairness it would be reflected in our significantly lower road taxes but that is not the case.


Thirdly, forcing motorcyclists to pay for parking in the city centre would all but ban them, which is an odd choice as the province has recently prioritized motorcycle tourism as a growth area. As it stands, motorcycles are already discriminated against by being disallowed from most parking lots. On-street parking is often difficult to find as it is and with Toronto's ticket based system, we would have no way of demonstrating we had paid - we don't have a dashboard to leave a ticket in. Maybe the councillors think replacing all the meters would fix that? Sounds like a net spend to me.


There's also the timing aspect. I know it's often slow to change the law, but this would seem to be a simply by-law change and thus happen quickly which makes November a strange month to push it through. There's only one or two of us brave souls out there still riding. There's no lost revenue to collect for at least four-six months.


The company I am a founder of, EatSleepRIDE, is about advancing the causes of motorcyclists everywhere. We even recently wrote a manifesto about how motorcycles can make this city, indeed any city, better (http://eatsleepride.com/c/4418/We+the+Motorcycles+Are+Here+to+Save+Toronto) from a traffic perspective. I would dearly love to find a way to get this discussed at the various government levels.


As such, I would humbly ask that you:


a) Vote against this bill tomorrow.


b) Ask the councillor(s) if they are looking for parity in the one area where are treated well, how do they intend to address the many areas where we are discriminated on (excessively high road taxes, unable to use HOV lanes, unable to use public and private parking lots /etc)?


c) Remind the council that there is no loss to them for at least 4-6 months and that all their constituents are best served by taking advantage of this time to study the facts


d) Allow me some time to meet with you, so that we can discuss how motorcycles can be better represented as positive modes of urban transport.


Regards,


Alex Crookes
President, EatSleepRIDE
http://EatSleepRIDE.com
Ward 19.
 

Jayv

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

It was only maybe 5 minutes long, in all. I think that the best point made was by Downs who pointed out the amount of money wasted when motorcyclists have to prove that they actually paid for their stolen or lost tickets, and the parking tickets are dropped.

Shame that the majority of the airtime was wasted by both of the hosts trying to prove their pro's and con's, sadly both sides were using misinformed information.
 

awyala

Well-known member
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

Toronto likes to bite other cities' initiatives.....try London then....create free parking bays (usually 2 car lengths, sometimes 1) Free for bikes only and usually 1 per block or 1 every 2 blocks. That way we don't park all willy nilly and rob the city of valuable infraction income. Or they shut the hell up when we stuff a bike between 2 cars and don't get in anyone's way.

There are a few spots around town where bikes routinely take up a a couple spots (with 5+ bikes). These would be great candidates for zoned bike parking. But other than downtown it is usually the odd bike here or there. Or the odd single bike which takes up a whole spot at a mall parking lot or something.

The case against free bike parking is weak, when 150cc scooters litter the sidewalks. The city's approach is haphazard and a sign of a confused "green" initiative. Toronto is by no means a leading city...they simply copy and paste.

Bike lanes? copy and paste
Bixie? copy and paste
High occupancy or diamond lanes? copy and paste
Reduction of classic streetcars? copy and paste
Dedicated embarking and disembarking platforms (that cripple traffic) (Roncesvalles)? copy and paste
You name it, this city bites it in a half assed poorly planned fashion. Even our infrastructure development over the years (especially the TTC) was half assed. Now we can't even afford to dig tunnels. This over groung light rail stuff is the sign of a poorly planned growth strategy from minute one. Toronto is buckling with only a population of (2.5 million) in the Metro area!!!

And the areas that take us up to 5 million are new enough to have been able to dig trenches to lay subway track, like Vaughan, Mississauga, Markham, etc. All in all this nitpicking over a minor segment like bikers is typical of Toronto city planning.

I only hope it gets tied up in 20 years of debate like the Gardener.
 

EatSleepRIDE

Active member
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

Write your councillor. It's not too late.

Toronto likes to bite other cities' initiatives.....try London then....create free parking bays (usually 2 car lengths, sometimes 1) Free for bikes only and usually 1 per block or 1 every 2 blocks. That way we don't park all willy nilly and rob the city of valuable infraction income. Or they shut the hell up when we stuff a bike between 2 cars and don't get in anyone's way.

There are a few spots around town where bikes routinely take up a a couple spots (with 5+ bikes). These would be great candidates for zoned bike parking. But other than downtown it is usually the odd bike here or there. Or the odd single bike which takes up a whole spot at a mall parking lot or something.

The case against free bike parking is weak, when 150cc scooters litter the sidewalks. The city's approach is haphazard and a sign of a confused "green" initiative. Toronto is by no means a leading city...they simply copy and paste.

Bike lanes? copy and paste
Bixie? copy and paste
High occupancy or diamond lanes? copy and paste
Reduction of classic streetcars? copy and paste
Dedicated embarking and disembarking platforms (that cripple traffic) (Roncesvalles)? copy and paste
You name it, this city bites it in a half assed poorly planned fashion. Even our infrastructure development over the years (especially the TTC) was half assed. Now we can't even afford to dig tunnels. This over groung light rail stuff is the sign of a poorly planned growth strategy from minute one. Toronto is buckling with only a population of (2.5 million) in the Metro area!!!

And the areas that take us up to 5 million are new enough to have been able to dig trenches to lay subway track, like Vaughan, Mississauga, Markham, etc. All in all this nitpicking over a minor segment like bikers is typical of Toronto city planning.

I only hope it gets tied up in 20 years of debate like the Gardener.
 

awyala

Well-known member
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

By the way, if free parking is repealed, that will crush the biking scene completely! I for one could not justify the expenditure any longer. With insurance rates on par with cars, and now daily commuting reaching the same costs as cars, why bother braving the weather to pay $20/day to park at work downtown?

The only advantage would be savings on gas, which would be justified by sheer comfort of the cage.

I'll just switch over to my heated / air conditioned car (which puffs away idling in Gardner traffic).

This is a collosally poorly thought out proposal!

It isn't even worth a vote.

If the city wants to cut congestion and polution...make parking free for bikes and legalize filtering and you will see an even more massive shift than that of recent times to 2 wheel commuting. When your average Joe can cut his commute by 70%, save another 60% on gas, and save 100% on parking....watch how Joe runs down to the dealer to grab a $6k Vespa and some textile all weather gear!
 

RetroGrouch

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Site Supporter
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

Since Case Ootes retired, the councillor who got us free parking, he's not around to champion our cause. Good thing I started riding my bicycle more in the city this year.
 

Dayao12

Well-known member
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

What the EFF?! It's so impractical. It'll be very easy for someone to take and use as their own. And if it's done that way, someone is still getting a free spot. Or a gust of wind will force us to go to court to prove that we did buy a ticket in the first place...ughh...
 

awyala

Well-known member
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

My letter to the councellor of the ward I work in.

Dear Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam,

Though I am not a resident of your ward, I am employed within ward 27. I have also lived almost my entire life within the Toronto limits and only now reside in Mississauga.

I beseech you to vote against repealing free motorcycle parking in Toronto based on the following rationale:

1) On an emotional level this lack of guidance and fore sight embarrasses me as a long-time resident of Toronto, who has had the opportunity to live abroad in London, only to return and witness a faltering lack of leadership or planning on a variety of issues such as bicycle lanes, high occupancy lanes etc., and now the issue with motorcycle parking. Toronto leaves me stunned and ashamed when it lowers itself to the level of knee jerk reactions or copy and paste solutions to issues the city faces. This almost Westminster style response (which in and of itself was highly controversial in that borough in London) is akin to Toronto's close watchful eye on London's congestion charge. Toronto yet again, exemplifies a character of follower rather than leader to take what is clearly a backward step with regard to motorcyclists.

2) Inconsistent or haphazard application of "initiatives" or incentives. When in one breath the city plays the "green" card, then takes a step like this, it illustrates lack of a cohesive holistic approach. When in another breath parking officials turn a blind eye to upwards of 150cc scooters parked on sidewalks, then punishes motorcycles (of any capacity) for parking on the street, again, it smacks of incoherence and misguided strategies. At worst it is just plain unjust and targeted bias.

3) The reaction you expect to receive or goal you expect to achieve. When my gas consumption for a 34km round trip commute from the edges of Toronto into the downtown core takes 30 minutes, costs me $20/wk in premium 91 octane fuel, and incurs no parking charges (and keep in mind I ride thee most gas guzzling of motorcycles, a super sport 1000cc), why on Earth would you think banning free parking, and forcing someone like me to incur a $20/day surcharge won’t have me running back to my warm comfortable idling car? Why on Earth would riders like me, or on even less polluting lower capacity commuter grade bikes bother braving the weather in hot, cold, rainy, windy conditions to then be met with an additional $400/month fee to park downtown?!?!?! This parking charge will have us all back in our air conditioned / heated cars clogging up the roads and taking up parking spots...more than we ever did on our bikes. Unless of course you plan on pushing us onto the now underfunded, over charged, oversubscribed and recently reduced capacity TTC. It just so happens my alternative route to work will be via the Queen Street car which has recently been announced will be met with reduced capacity and longer wait times. Again on the emotional level this brings shame to my heart to see a once great city buckle under the load of population figures of 2.5 million for Toronto and 5.9 million for the CMA (inclussive of York, Peel, Halton and parts of Durham). Even with such inflated figures over an enormous geographic territory Toronto is left dumb founded with the increase in congestion and trafficarge. More populous and less known cities have met their challenges with more poise, grace, and inginuity and haven't buckled under such low population figures. Rob Ford and his love affair of the car is one thing, but it makes no sense to target motorcycles...unless of course the aim is revenue generation...which after all is what made Westminster’s decision so controversial. Even so what income would you stand to gain from bikes?

I urge you to vote down this proposal tomorrow and consider real statistics rather than entertain whimsical imitative hollow gestures. I urge you to prove me wrong about Toronto's lack of vision and planning and rally others to usher in an era of leadership for this city.

In my personal opinion, if the city were to legalize filtering for example, or at least table that as an option...the outcome would see your average Joe who works in the city rushing to his nearest scooter dealership to snap up a 150cc scooter for $5000 to $7000, grab some textile all weather gear and swap his bulbous polluting car for a sleek eco-friendly, economical conveyance. With low capacity motorcycles / scooters in the sub $10k range, with insurance levels at roughly $500 per annum, and weekly fuel costs at around $12/week, and NO PARKING CHARGES....as you have witnessed, even in this cold climate, many more people will be switching to an all round win win commuting solution. Throw in the legalization of filtering to cut down commute times even further and you could see a shift in commuting patterns for this city. However, follow through with this proposal to repeal free parking for motorcycles and I vehemently assure you, you will witness a collapse of motorized two wheel commuting of any capacity. You will relegate the whole industry to a wealthy person's weekend summer recreational romp.

If you don't have some solid numbers to back this proposal, which have not properly been passed on to the public mind you, I would be shocked and dismayed to learn you voted for this proposal.

Make us proud, as riders, as green conscious stewards, and as Torontonians, yours,
 

Ugur Dinch

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Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

I wonder if they are pulling this just now because it is the end of the season..
 

Rob MacLennan

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Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto

Members of GTA who actually live in Toronto will need to get on this, by contacting their counsellors, as soon as possible. This is the last session for the fall. Thos of us who work in Toronto, but live outside, can really be of no help here. With the hate on for 905ers we'd just be reinforcing their idea, that they rescind the free parking in pay & display areas, because we'd be seen as taking advantage of Torontonians who do pay for parking.

For the record, I do pay for parking my bike. It's a nominal charge, paid to my employer, but I pay nonetheless.

could you sue the councillors in support of charging motorcycles for time lost when fighting traffic tickets?
In a word: No.
 

topendz

Well-known member
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City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

I would suggest those not wanting to loose free parking of motorcycles and scooters complain to their local council ASAP today as they are voting on it.


http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2011.MM14.19

________

TORONTO - City council may move to slam the brakes on free parking in Toronto for motorcycles and scooters Wednesday.

Budget chief Mike Del Grande and Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam are asking their council colleagues to have staff examine enforcing parking charges and fees on motorcycles and motor scooters.

“They burn gas just like everybody else,” Del Grande said Tuesday. “You take a parking spot, you pay what you pay for cars.”

Back in 2005, city council exempted motorcycles and scooters from buying pay-and-display tickets when they park in designated street parking areas. Del Grande points out in 2006, council voted to allow motorcycles and scooters to get long-term, on-street parking permits for free.

“I’ve noticed going through the budget that there are all kinds of freebies that still exist in the City of Toronto that doesn’t exist anywhere else,” Del Grande told reporters.

While he didn’t have a dollar amount on how much money Toronto is losing on the motorcycle parking “freebies”, Del Grande said no amount would be too small.

“Even if it is a dollar, it is a dollar that should go into the city coffers,” he said.

In his member’s motion which city council will vote on Wednesday, Del Grande calls the motorcycle parking freebies unfair to other vehicles.

“These systems are unfair to motorists who drive different classes of vehicles other than motorcycles and motor scooters as they currently pay full fees for using parking services of their vehicles,” Del Grande writes in his motion. “Exempting certain classes of vehicles such as motorcycles and motor scooters from being charged the above fees could also be considered a loss in potential revenue for the city.”

don.peat@sunmedia.ca
 
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